Gone... updated

[Kadri]

Take it easy Mhaze 

Martin said  "* Definitely a bit overdone, actually."
He do not need help from me but when you put your image here you will get many different kind of comments.
Some good some bad . Believe me i am the hardest critic of my own images.
This is one of the reason that i not post much here. And the images i post do feel mostly not much finished too.
Especially looking back after a while .
Magazine editors may have a hand on this or not ...
Take a look at CGtalk (not that they are the best etc.) you will probably not see much washed out images there ...
Because they have more like a casual taken photo look.
So they may look in that way real but do not look good.

This is not always right of course.
We are trying to make art so you can go and make a "washed out look" series of images and they would maybe looked as very nice examples of art too...so yeah this could go a long way as a debate 

But i get it. For example i am tired of the stuttered (handheld) animation style , chromatic aberration etc. in art.
It may look like photo or movie. But  it mimics the bad way of doing ...So...?

So yeah take this not on a personal level. You only gave a opportunity to make a rant .


PS. Your image needs only just a tiny bit (really small amount) contrast in my opinion         


     True (for me) but i am only kidding Mick 

[dandelO]

I'm sorry, mhaze. I'll remove that now. Really didn't mean to be offensive.

[mhaze]

dandelo, I'm not in the least offended by your comment, it was full of useful information.  Sorry if I appeared to be ranting not my intention, as I said I don't want to get into a long complex discussion on this... merely an observation. But I do plan the effect I want even if I don't always get there!  Terragen does tend to produce flat grey images something that used to annoy me but I'm begining to like the look!   so forgive me if I explore it. Mick

[dandelO]

Of course, Mick.
Please excuse me anyway for jumping in and messing around with stuff. I wasn't sure how to take your comment after I posted and then, reading Kadri's post, I gathered that you were a bit pissed off.
Martin.

[TheBadger]

Hi,

I for one appreciate the discussion you guys are having. It is very important to be able to defend your ideas in art, as in life. Its just as important in commercial work because thats where the money is.
And because this community is so open and tolerant it provides a very safe place to work out ideas and practice.

One thing I love about this community is that even negative criticism seems to come from a good place. Everyone really seems to want everyone to get better with the software, and fundamentals of art and design.

I learn a lot here. About art, about various scientific disciplines, design, and even about my self. Thanks guys!

[nbk2]

I decided the ultimate picture is a  (big) cat besides a naked woman on a jetty with a sunset on long exposure blurry water . 

Add some anime ...

I am also often annoyed at main stream stuff, so apologies when I was making a suggestion from the average side of my soul. 

[mhaze]

Not in the least pissed off just frustrated. Getting things right in Terragen is one of life's great challenges! Kadri you are probably right a hint more contrast is probably needed.

The comment about mag editors was rather flippant but represents my feelings about much of the images thrown at us these days, the latest ipad advert for instance.
I come from a mainstream art background which long ago threw out the rules. Rules such as the good old rule of thirds, the poor mans golden section. I remember years ago when I first started taking photos being told that my pictures were bad because they did not follow the rule of thirds! I cringe even now when I hear people talk about the rule as if it were an absolute.  Our perceptions are moulded by the world around us and the society we live in and we should take care to remember that. 

In this day and age, I fear that our perception of landscape is based more on the pictures we see in mags, films and on the internet than on direct observation.  When was the last time you got up in the early hours to experience the dawn and the golden half hour just after dawn?  or stood on a beach in a storm and watched the waves crashing on the rocks and the clouds scudding across the sky. When was the last time you walked in a forest or stood on a mountain and watched the sunset? My point is art should be based on our direct experience not on theories, fashion or second hand knowledge such as photos, even our own. Only then can be have something valid to say, something that enriches human experience and adds meaning to our lives.

Sorry ranting again!!!!

[TheBadger]

I decided the ultimate picture is a  (big) cat besides a naked woman on a jetty with a sunset on long exposure blurry water . 

Add some anime ...

I am also often annoyed at main stream stuff, so apologies when I was making a suggestion from the average side of my soul. 

You can keep the the water and the cat, but this woman interests me. Naked you say? What happened to the poor girls clothes? Did the cat scratch them all up? Naughty pussy! Naughty, naughty!

@mhaze
You seem a little conflicted, it sounds. I think I share a little with you in terms of seeing a disconnect between art and popular culture.
That is, whenever I make something I try to take it as seriously as my own ideas and believes. But I am coming to the realization that this is not really possible or healthy.
I think its ok to not give work that you do for 'commercial" or "pop", the same serious eye that you should give to work that represents your more personal philosophical views. I am beginning to believe that we have to compartmentalize. Meaning we have to make a distinction between our art and our work.
But there are all kinds of pitfalls in that approach too.
But if you have a traditional art background than you know that this is nothing new.

PS
I was always taught that rules like the "rules of third" are more of a guide line than a rule. And the golden ratio is a great tool to have and understand!

[mhaze]

Badger, all rules in art are guidelines, trouble is people forget that! They usually exist for good reasons and you break them at your peril as it's easy to produce something horrible! but for example basing an image on diagonals can be very dramatic or using colour as the main component of your composition can produce powerful or subtle images. As to the rest graphics and fine art have always been at loggerheads with one another so nothing new there. As long as you can separate your personal work from commercial functional image making there is not a problem for you the artist,  but for Joe Public who finds that the landscape does not live up to expectations and retreats back to his warm comfy virtual world......

We have to make a living.  I solved the problem by teaching and was able to keep my artistic sense of integrity intact but I know others who had problems with creating commercial work they don't really believe in and yet others with great talent who didn't care what they did as long as they got paid.  As long as you stay true to yourself you will be ok, even if poor.

[nbk2]

I decided the ultimate picture is a  (big) cat besides a naked woman on a jetty with a sunset on long exposure blurry water . 

Add some anime ...

I am also often annoyed at main stream stuff, so apologies when I was making a suggestion from the average side of my soul. 

You can keep the the water and the cat, but this woman interests me. Naked you say? What happened to the poor girls clothes? Did the cat scratch them all up? Naughty pussy! Naughty, naughty!

Something fluffy with big eyes took the clothes and ran off. 

[Kadri]

...
The comment about mag editors was rather flippant but represents my feelings about much of the images thrown at us these days, the latest ipad advert for instance.
I come from a mainstream art background which long ago threw out the rules. Rules such as the good old rule of thirds, the poor mans golden section. I remember years ago when I first started taking photos being told that my pictures were bad because they did not follow the rule of thirds! I cringe even now when I hear people talk about the rule as if it were an absolute.  Our perceptions are moulded by the world around us and the society we live in and we should take care to remember that. 

In this day and age, I fear that our perception of landscape is based more on the pictures we see in mags, films and on the internet than on direct observation.  When was the last time you got up in the early hours to experience the dawn and the golden half hour just after dawn?  or stood on a beach in a storm and watched the waves crashing on the rocks and the clouds scudding across the sky. When was the last time you walked in a forest or stood on a mountain and watched the sunset? My point is art should be based on our direct experience not on theories, fashion or second hand knowledge such as photos, even our own. Only then can be have something valid to say, something that enriches human experience and adds meaning to our lives.

Sorry ranting again!!!!

+1 

[Kadri]

Nbk2 we should make another thread about your post with naked women and..and...what was the other things... 

Mhaze this is what i hate and love about the internet.
It is hard to know all the things the poster does mean behind a little post.
Seeing that the posters thoughts are not so much different then yours is nice 

[mhaze]

Don't get me wrong commercial work can be very beautiful and sensitively done - look at Dune's medieval village for example. Depends on the editor I guess.

[Henry Blewer]

I do my work (art?) as I want it to look. Most of the time I am trying something different in my renders. The camera is on that part that I was working on. Usually the images I post are at least pretty (hopefully). There are many renders I have never posted...

Art to me is what I find appealing. This may not help, but a good, delicious bologna sandwich is art; whether it is to be eaten or displayed in a museum. Art is really about making the artist happy.

[nbk2]

Well they used to pay me for this kinda stuff (well programming real time stuff in C++ with landscapes), sadly the credit crunch has also affected universities.

With 197 million pieces of "art" and 20 million people registered on deviantart providing tools for these people seems more lucrative than actually doing art in a world where you compete with millions of pieces uploaded each day.

So teaching is good imo.