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General => Image Sharing => NWDA Cliffs Contest => Topic started by: cyphyr on January 12, 2018, 08:12:15 PM

Title: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 12, 2018, 08:12:15 PM
I'll be posting my work in progress for the Cliff Challenge here over the next couple of months.
Before I decide on a specific scene I want to explore cliffs quite a lot more.
There are of course many different kinds of cliff (sandstone, granite, eroded, ice to name just a few) and different techniques will be appropriate to each. I also want to explore various camera angles and aspect ratios since these can both greatly emphasise or detract from the power and impact of an image. I would also like the image to tell some kind of a story so I will be exploring these ideas as well when they come up.
It will probably be quite random to start off with trying out various ideas and going off at tangents along the way.

So here are my initial attempts and experiments. I think one of the most effective is CliffPlane-02 although it has a somewhat "cartoony" look to it. All of the displacements are based on Smooth Voroni 3D Cell shader noise and CliffFace-07 also has some square noise courtesy of Hetzen and mhaze (See here (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23731.msg240082.html#msg240082)).

The WhiteCliffs-01 is an obvious choice but other than dropping a Spitfire into it I don't really see where to go with this one.

Feedback very welcome although there is probably not much to say at the moment.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on January 12, 2018, 09:09:57 PM
01 has my attention for certain ! Great start on all of them that's for certain
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 13, 2018, 06:21:03 AM
Mix between 02 and 07 I'd say. It's paramount to get the 'repetition' out and make the rock natural and logical, but you got really far already. Worthy adversary, that's for sure  ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hannes on January 13, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
I'd say a mix between 01 and 07. Great and interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 14, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Further updates.
I have been experimenting with using Vector displacement.
Creating VDM (vector Displacement Maps) looks to be beyond my scope for the time being but there is still a lot that can be done within Terragen itself.
I used  a bright green Simple shape shader with a bevelled fall off to displace in the y axis and a turquoise copy of the same shader displacing in the z direction to turn the 45 degree bevelled edge into a vertical cliff face.

I'm still basing the fine detail on the square noise (see above) although it has been heavily modified to provide more irregularity. I think I need to break up the cliff face so there are large sheer faces with minimal displacement (very hard to climb) and other much more broken areas with lots of detailed displacement.

No texturing at all as as yet.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 14, 2018, 01:22:20 PM
Quite the challenge all! Good progress!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on January 14, 2018, 02:16:22 PM
These are looking pretty good Richard
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 14, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Thanks for sharing your workflow, Richard. Looks really good.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 14, 2018, 03:13:19 PM
Thanks for sharing your workflow, Richard. Looks really good.
Thanks :)
For me it's an essential part of the challenge, for others less so but "vive la difference" as they say.

A larger version, VectorCliffFace-12. I'm not happy about the rounded shapes to the right and on the far left there is a very obvious repeating pattern.
There are also many torn/stretched areas which look kind of weird, almost melted. They are not everywhere so I'll have to figure what part of the displacement is causing them.

I'm not concerned about the large gap at the bottom for the moment

Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: j meyer on January 14, 2018, 03:45:51 PM
 8) Very promising.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: inkydigit on January 15, 2018, 09:43:26 AM
 8)
Very cool stuff Richard...
These all look awesome,
Especially the vector displacement
I hear strains of Dame Vera, no? ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 15, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
I think I managed to get rid of the rounded aspects although I suspect this will be dependant on the PF's used to do the large scale displacements and re-directs.

...
I hear strains of Dame Vera, no? ;)

I may go in that direction just for the "Blighty" of it but I don't want that to be my final submission. Could be fun though :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Artice-3d on January 15, 2018, 12:43:45 PM
Mmm... It's really, really good.. Best picture and technique in this challenge so far  :o 8) ;) ;D
------------------------------

But in the race to get good sharp angles you've got too many artifacts, not only at the bottom, but at sides of cliff too.. The rest is well done, shapes is very promising  ::) ;) ;) Guys you're so talented and amazing  ;) :-X
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 15, 2018, 01:34:07 PM
Thankyou :)

...
But in the race to get good sharp angles you've got too many artifacts, not only at the bottom, but at sides of cliff too.. The rest is well done, shapes is very promising  ::) ;) ;) Guys you're so talented and amazing  ;) :-X

Yes I agree.
And it will probably get worse before it gets better. Once the cliffs are put in a scene with more landscape, rolling hills etc they will no longer be an isolated entity. The displacements of the rest of the scene will have an impact on the cliffs too (unless I can isolate them).
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Kadri on January 15, 2018, 03:12:07 PM

Nice rocks. Looks very promising.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on January 20, 2018, 10:25:23 AM
After I saw all the other rocks I thought nothing further would surprise me. Was I wrong!  ::)
Curious about how they will look with some more terrain.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 21, 2018, 09:38:05 AM
It's all very well making a cliff on it's own but combining that into a terrain creates a whole bunch of new problems. The underlying terrain alters the shape of the cliff and small fractal displacements end up breaking the cliff texture ...

Smoothing filter to the rescue (it's hiding in "Other shaders").

In many ways this is a step backwards but I'm going to have to overcome these problems at some point so sooner is better than later.
Colour version for fun.

Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 22, 2018, 11:55:21 PM
It's a great learning process. Sometimes you just have to go back to basics and work from the ground up :)
Also I love how the chats on this forum inspire and inform.
Those blue nodes have a lot to teach. The Diff-Cliff images are based on multiple layers of Voroni 3D Diff Scalars.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 23, 2018, 12:25:09 AM
Sometimes you have to read between the lines too! Responses to posts can be a very valuable source of information. Sometimes things explode or warp unlike you are thinking but even then you learn something useful. No shortage of help here for sure, yourself included. :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: zaxxon on January 23, 2018, 12:59:01 AM
Those last shapes show a lot of refinement of your process. They're really looking good!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 23, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Great progress. I like to build from scratch every time again. It's like cooking a meal, better start with fresh ingredients than stuffing old fries in a pan  ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 26, 2018, 12:54:48 PM
Some updates.
Really getting into the blue nodes on this although I only know why a little of what I'm doing is working (or not working lol).
Mostly these use Voronoi 3D diff scalar (unmasked and vanilla!) and the cracks use the good old Voronoi 3D diff scalar with Voronoi 3D cell scalar combo.

I'm getting weird artefacts with the strata and outcrops shader so I may have to abandon using that and create an alternative of some kind ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on January 26, 2018, 01:42:38 PM
Diff-cliff 15 is nice!!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 26, 2018, 02:16:10 PM
Some great stuff here Richard...I like the 3rd one best, except for the very long crack running through the entire cliff at the center of the render, kinda distracting the way it looks now.
The others are very good as well though. Each has its own interestingly looking features. The 2nd one has some pretty sweet looking voronoi flattish faces seen in, say, Yosemite.
I don't know what you think, but I think displacement-wise these are 95% finished (it never gets too 100 eh) and shading/texturing will take it next level?
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 26, 2018, 02:29:47 PM
Haha, no it never gets to 100%, but then what would we do?!
Yes the texturing and fine scale displacements are next  in line, although no doubt I'll be revisiting the major displacements soon enough :)
Oh and not to mention I've yet to decide on a good view point, aspect ratio, atmosphere and general environment and all the general vegetation that'll get thrown in at the end because I forgot about it till then!

Cheers
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: mhaze on January 27, 2018, 09:08:13 AM
Have you tried adding some fractal warp to the whole thing - adds lots of interesting and subtle detail.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 27, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
This is the latest version. I am using FW but I don't want to overdo it. It's a little ott here :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 27, 2018, 11:53:04 AM
Cool!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on January 27, 2018, 01:16:52 PM
Quote
I am using FW but I don't want to overdo it.
???
What is FW?
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 27, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
FW = Fractal Warp  8)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on January 27, 2018, 01:28:58 PM
Ah, I see. Thank you!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: zaxxon on January 27, 2018, 01:55:41 PM
Love the perspective and the scale with the the trees. Great work!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 28, 2018, 06:45:22 PM
Testing out some atmosphere and rock textures.
I think I may need to find a new POV.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 28, 2018, 06:50:29 PM
Good grief gorgeous!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Kadri on January 28, 2018, 07:08:50 PM

Very nice rock.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 29, 2018, 08:33:52 AM
Change of perspective and a little more detail on the cliff face.
I wanted to introduce a fore ground element, maybe some fallen rocks or something but I feel at the moment the new view point is a little less dramatic. Clouds and lighting way over the top but fun nonetheless :)

Ahh, just figured why the last image is SO dark.
Two Sun lights one with soft shadows on and set to surfaces only, the other with soft shadows off and set to Atmo only.
I had disabled the atmo one lol
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 29, 2018, 12:27:22 PM
First glance I thought lower right clouds were water.....I know this is just trial time, but hope you can incorporate some water in your scene. I like the dramatic sky contrast with rock colors...NICE!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 29, 2018, 01:20:04 PM
Thankyou :)
Yes I may try some water elements in the final (or at least have some fun experimenting with them ...)
Here's a less dramatic version. I had to re-render the bottom left corner as the render got stuck on something. I am using very high settings so those could be dropped down a little I guess. I don't want to loose the detail in the rock structure though.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 29, 2018, 03:17:31 PM
Your rock looks extremely solid and very hard. I do like the light too.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: René on January 29, 2018, 04:52:16 PM
Beautiful massive rocks!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 29, 2018, 08:57:41 PM
Great shapes...for the surfaces I'd personally prefer something Rene made some time ago:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23595.0.html
I like the contrasts in the pattern, the dark grey and sharp white streaks.
You have variation as well, but the low contrast looks a bit out of place with the solid hard looking cliff.
How does your cliff look like when you enable the colour on one of the fractals which make the displacement? Perhaps that could give clues to nice masking and shading opportunities?
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 29, 2018, 09:18:01 PM
I do want better surfaces definitely. They don't hold up too well close up. The displacements are mostly Voronoi 3D diff scalar so don't lend themselves too well to texture masking ... but now you got me thinking ... there might be a way .. scurries off to computer .
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 30, 2018, 06:23:29 AM
Of course there is; displacement to scalar, but you probably realized that too  ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on February 06, 2018, 05:33:30 AM
All of your tests are pretty amazing but the ones I personally like the best are the vectors that look like alien space hulls or colonies...carry on...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 09, 2018, 12:37:34 PM
Hmm, in a bit of a rut.
here are the latest updates. Finally figured out how to make rocks in Sculptris so added a few. Probably add some more generally scattered about.
Not happy with lighting or colour. Both too dull. Same can be said for the view point.
I think I need to stir it up a bit, use the techniques I've developed on a completely new scene.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on February 09, 2018, 03:08:19 PM
A bit dull indeed, but I really like the angularity and the fallen rock debris. But with debris like that there should be 'holes' in the rockwall, where they came from.....
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on February 17, 2018, 01:12:18 PM
......wondering what this wizard is doing...... :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on February 17, 2018, 02:08:16 PM
......wondering what this wizard is doing...... :)

maybe he has a real job heh heh
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 17, 2018, 07:49:39 PM
......wondering what this wizard is doing...... :)

maybe he has a real job heh heh

... something like that ... ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on February 25, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
Damn good Richard
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 26, 2018, 07:33:22 AM
I stalled a bit but I think I see a way forward now ...
I will be getting rid of the wolves. The quality is not there in the base model. They are from Poser and I "could" add a fur layer but it only renders in Poser and would have to be comped in post (which is a pain and kinda bending the rules a bit much).
Not sure what to replace them with, remains of their last meal maybe ... ?
The jungle to savannah break is a little too harsh so that needs fixing.
Maybe an island or two in the river.
Birds, maybe some flamingos ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: mhaze on February 26, 2018, 09:00:41 AM
This has huge potential.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on February 26, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Agree w Mick....
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on February 26, 2018, 01:16:38 PM
Very cool and very much like the Wildlife Art you often encounter. Nice mood. Can't you export the fur from poser? In ZB you can make fur and export.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 26, 2018, 04:50:49 PM
Moving forward  8)
I'm using 3 suns since the actual sun throws the cliffs into too much shadow.
Wolfy has gone for now ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on February 27, 2018, 07:21:00 AM
Those island are a nice addition indeed.  The pebbles (fake stones?) look a bit weird, too regular, maybe more variation in size combined with a layer of grainy sand/dust...? Well, that's what I would do. But it's not my render; I'd wish   ;D
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: ajcgi on February 27, 2018, 11:05:13 AM
That is an excellent composition
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: zaxxon on February 27, 2018, 03:12:36 PM
Lots of development in your thinking on this theme. It's fun to watch each excellent variation unfold. This one has some fine potential!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on February 27, 2018, 11:23:29 PM
Moving forward  8)
I'm using 3 suns since the actual sun throws the cliffs into too much shadow.
Wolfy has gone for now ...

at Matt's suggestion I solved that problem by upping the exposure with no rendertime growth.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 27, 2018, 11:43:24 PM
The exposure is at 3 already but upping the exposure any more will blow out the sky too much. Once I get it good enough I'll render it all out as layers and do a balanced comp from that.
Actually that reminds me ... I know using render layers is allowed how about using two renders (ie one with GI and one with AO) and blend them together for increased "tonal depth"? Would that be allowed? I suspect not ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on February 28, 2018, 12:07:26 AM
The exposure is at 3 already but upping the exposure any more will blow out the sky too much. Once I get it good enough I'll render it all out as layers and do a balanced comp from that.
Actually that reminds me ... I know using render layers is allowed how about using two renders (ie one with GI and one with AO) and blend them together for increased "tonal depth"? Would that be allowed? I suspect not ...


Cool, it's a lovely effect you got going...was it a looooong render? Y know as it's all done internally it might well be O K.

days later I checked the rules and as long as the layers are created within TG then assembly in PhSh is allowed it seems like.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on February 28, 2018, 12:35:47 AM
Allow or not, bet it would be spiffy! Great progress!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on February 28, 2018, 05:52:18 AM
Why do two renders with GI and AO separately. You can add an AO light.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on February 28, 2018, 07:51:06 AM
Why do two renders with GI and AO separately. You can add an AO light.

Because I found it astonishingly hard to control in the renderer. I've not tried it for an age but it was a trick I was fond of using early on. I think I would layer them in Photoshop with the AO at 50% screen (but I can't really remember).
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on February 28, 2018, 12:52:21 PM
Ah, I see.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Jo Kariboo on March 03, 2018, 12:26:33 PM
The last one is beautifull!!!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 04, 2018, 08:27:26 AM
Slowly progressing.

I need to start optimising, renders are taking way too long now, this was five and a half hours at 0.5 and 3AA and I want the final to be High res and high settings ...
A lot still to do.
I'm not happy about the cliff wall on the left, multiple issues:
The low ledge to the left of the tree needs to be softened, it just looks wrong.
The cliff face is to uniform in it's strata and roughness. And their are some strange broken overlapping polys that need to go.
Not sure about the foreground pool. Needs something there, maybe just a bush ...
Quite happy about the sky, I'll probably run a few over night tests to see if it can be improved with different cloud settings.
Forest/jungle needs subtle more variety, maybe some clearings closer to the foreground.
Lastly I'm not too sure about the camera vp. Position is good but the horizon line at 50% is kinda uninspiring. I'll try a few options with it at the 33% mark.
Cheers for looking and crits always helpful

:)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: mhaze on March 04, 2018, 09:25:33 AM
Gorgeous!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 04, 2018, 10:32:03 AM
Love it overall, especially the lighting. Don't be too critical...it's a great render! :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 04, 2018, 12:59:11 PM
Ok so I did a simple comparison and Grey scaled the output to ovoid distraction.
First one is the same as above, the second is the "rule of thirds" new pov.
I think it sits better but I may have to move the islands as I have lost one in the new pov.

EDIT: added New_Cliff_12compTest.jpg
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on March 04, 2018, 01:08:49 PM
Why not tilt the camera the other way so the horizon is at 2/3?  You'd lose some sky but that is not the main focus of the render, is it? And I think that if you move the camera a bit backwards and upwards you also wouldn't lose too much of the left cliff...
And it's a great moody render you have here, almost forgot to say.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 04, 2018, 01:26:07 PM
I am trying a render as you suggest but I did want some very close foreground detail to add some DOF to which a higher vp won't give me. It would accentuate the height though and I might be able to add something else as foreground detail. Put the camera in the branches of a tree maybe.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hetzen on March 04, 2018, 02:01:33 PM
I prefer the first one Richard. I think its better framed. I don't think you need to do a thirds on this. Your eye is drawn along the river in the first. I'm looking at the sky in the second.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on March 04, 2018, 03:51:55 PM
I like the first one too, but the third has something too; it's kind of 'enclosed', which feels good. I do think you should try moving the cam slightly left, so you get a better reflection of the side of the cliff (so the right side of the reflection is sky, left is rock), if you get my point.
Also, I actually prefer the B&W, as the others are very uniformly warm. Too much, IMHO. If you can tone the shadowy parts more towards grey, cool tones, I think it's more balanced maybe.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on March 04, 2018, 04:10:15 PM
Agree with Hetzen and Dune, 1st has more going on with nice subtle details to catch the eye
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 04, 2018, 05:13:34 PM
I lke 3 best but all are very nice...going to stay greyscale? really suits the image
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 05, 2018, 09:03:44 AM
New VP, went for 3 after feedback from experts and my wife!
Maybe a little over saturated.
I do agree about the Black and White version but I don't think it will be my submission ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on March 05, 2018, 09:28:06 AM
Getting better and better!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: ajcgi on March 05, 2018, 11:05:09 AM
When I can, I get out with my camera into what i consider the real world. Between April 2016 and April 2017 I only shot or developed photos in black and white. To me eye there were many occasions when this worked out well, creating striking images, and others where the colours around me were way more interesting and the monochrome image was just lacklustre by comparison. Black and white landscapes like this can work very well if the composition is strong and lighting isn't flat.
The colour you have here is just as saturated as most landscape work coming out of the US where saturation sliders go to 11 for some reason. I would dial it back a little bit.
Strong image.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 05, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Haha, yes the oversaturation is due to hitting the HDR button in photoshop. At the moment the base render is a little to flat (hence the hdr) but all this will be changed once I start outputting Render Elements.
One issue I have run into is that the foliage of the trees can be over saturated and somewhat monochrome. You can see that is some of the overly GREEN trees.
Using PF's can help but it is very much a matter of trial and error.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: ajcgi on March 05, 2018, 01:06:36 PM
Render Elements are very useful. You could possibly render out the trees separately and colour correct them on their own?
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 05, 2018, 01:57:24 PM
Unfortunately there is no Object ID render pass as yet which would be the ideal option. They could be output as a separate pass using the Render layers Objects tab. Hmm interesting idea, I shall make a test.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 05, 2018, 04:46:20 PM
a continuing WOW from stahrworld!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Oshyan on March 05, 2018, 09:47:21 PM
The latest version is looking great, aside the oversaturation. But you're aware of that. I love the small details on the lower-left (little pebbles and stuff), and the long shadows cast, plus the rays in the low clouds. And the lilies (?) in the water below. The whole thing has a bit of a Jungle Book feel... (that's a good thing)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 06, 2018, 07:28:09 PM
Slow iterations now honing in on details.
Added a cloud bank, I'll try a few variations and probably get rid, not sure it adds much but we'll see.
The foreground ledge has been textured with an image from Quixel Megascans and the fallen branch if also from an edited model from the same.
A little less saturated and possibly too dark. Kinda liked the saturated look ...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 06, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
That's really beautiful! Especially the middle part looks fantastic.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 06, 2018, 08:25:21 PM
Agree w/Hannes, anything you do seems to just make it better
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Oshyan on March 06, 2018, 08:34:36 PM
I think the addition of clouds is good. The ledge looks even better than before now too. You're on the right track! :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on March 07, 2018, 05:35:24 AM
Great update. Tree shadows are very nice too!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: mhaze on March 07, 2018, 08:41:23 AM
Excellent update, great atmosphere.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 07, 2018, 12:06:55 PM
This is just beautiful. I know it is about the cliffs, but the lighting and atmosphere is just superb in this render! I loved your pool by the tree, but these newer tweaks catch the light so well. Love the light bounce on the right as well. Just grand! One might miss the geese were it not for that lovely sky. Excellent work on this one!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Zairyn Arsyn on March 07, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
Fantastic, Richard!
I like the god rays/fog in the valley with the trees.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: ajcgi on March 09, 2018, 03:20:26 PM
That is indeed a beautiful Cliff... Richard.  ;D
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Jo Kariboo on March 09, 2018, 03:31:06 PM
Very nice view!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on March 15, 2018, 02:51:51 PM
Just mentioning that I am continuing to develop the shot. A "little" challenging though ... I'm using TeamSpeak to connect my Surface Pro in Vancouver to my workstation in the UK. A little squinting at the screen is involved but I can move the cursor about on the screen some 7500km away.
I'm also using DropBox to render output into a shared folder so I can view locally.
Not the recomended way of doing things but it adds to the fun!!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on March 15, 2018, 04:37:14 PM
That's a cool way to work.  :o
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 17, 2018, 12:44:48 AM
Now that's TerreDedication...
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on April 06, 2018, 04:58:22 PM
So after a 316h 39m 05s render I am done!
A personal record if nothing else.

Actually after all that time I can't tell any difference but it is hard peering through a magnifying glass at my workstation back in the UK via TeamViewer.

Over the weekend I will play with render layers and see what I can add in post comp.Comp will be a chalange as well lol (also using a magnifying glass and Team Viewer)

Looking forward to seeing everyone elses submissions especially thoes who have been lurling in the shadows :)

Good luck everyone
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: zaxxon on April 06, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
Looks great despite the workflow handicap. Amazing perseverance!  It's a beautiful image and I wish you luck in getting it together in time.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on April 06, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
what you have done here is beyond cool! Good luck! :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Jo Kariboo on April 06, 2018, 07:13:52 PM
Very beautiful your image and it will say that you have very patient with this long rendering. A chance that you have not encountered any failure. Good luck!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on April 07, 2018, 07:17:25 AM
Despite the strange color bands it looks like a terrific entry. But, good heavens, what render time. Good luck, Richard. I too long to see the secretives' entries....
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Kadri on April 07, 2018, 07:22:14 AM

Phew what a render time! But it is worth. Looks great.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hetzen on April 08, 2018, 03:27:22 PM
That's looking spectacular Richard. Can't wait to see this in full colour rez.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on April 08, 2018, 04:28:49 PM
Despite the strange color bands it looks like a terrific entry. But, good heavens, what render time. Good luck, Richard. I too long to see the secretives' entries....
Haha the colour banding is just from a low rez screen capture from the Team viewer software.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on April 08, 2018, 10:11:38 PM
Despite the strange color bands it looks like a terrific entry. But, good heavens, what render time. Good luck, Richard. I too long to see the secretives' entries....
Haha the colour banding is just from a low rez screen capture from the Team viewer software.

Well now, I will just have to send you an image so you can further complicate your life by applying all file transfer methods and transformations to my clouds. I shall have pink terrain too please. ;D
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on April 09, 2018, 05:15:48 AM
I thought as much, Richard. Longing to see the original!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on April 09, 2018, 07:13:07 AM
Ok, I'm done.
I have been squinting at that screen for the last three weeks and that was two weeks at least too long!
So below is my final submission for the NWDA Cliff Challenge 2018.
I wanted to work with the render El;ements out put but in the end all I realy did was enhance some detail in the distant clouds and tweak some general contrast and levles.
Hope you like the final result.
Good luck everyone :)


Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on April 09, 2018, 07:25:37 AM
.. and here is the un-edited version
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2018, 07:53:32 AM

Sweet.
I think i like the un-edited version just a little more.

Hope i can finish to squinting too. Just 1 day or less and i am still tweaking sand  :o
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Artice-3d on April 09, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
cyphyr, i like the last version, but i think it needed a bit more contrast to make it live as possible ;))
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on April 09, 2018, 01:54:08 PM
I'll have to see them next to eachother, but I think I prefer the one without the lens artifacts better too. Great work, Richard. Very warm, great sky and really makes you feel good. And if you get too warm, just hop over to my cold and wet cliffs ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: j meyer on April 09, 2018, 05:49:06 PM
 8) Nice dreamscape.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Oshyan on April 09, 2018, 10:32:00 PM
I do feel the lens artifact (especially blur, lower-left) is a bit excessive, and generally prefer the unprocessed one. But it's a fantastic scene and result overall, regardless.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hannes on April 10, 2018, 09:45:36 AM
Also prefer the unprocessed image. Very beautiful scene!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: ajcgi on April 10, 2018, 09:55:55 AM
Nice Cliff Richard!  ;)