Planetside Software Forums

General => Image Sharing => NWDA Cliffs Contest => Topic started by: cyphyr on January 12, 2018, 08:12:15 PM

Title: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 12, 2018, 08:12:15 PM
I'll be posting my work in progress for the Cliff Challenge here over the next couple of months.
Before I decide on a specific scene I want to explore cliffs quite a lot more.
There are of course many different kinds of cliff (sandstone, granite, eroded, ice to name just a few) and different techniques will be appropriate to each. I also want to explore various camera angles and aspect ratios since these can both greatly emphasise or detract from the power and impact of an image. I would also like the image to tell some kind of a story so I will be exploring these ideas as well when they come up.
It will probably be quite random to start off with trying out various ideas and going off at tangents along the way.

So here are my initial attempts and experiments. I think one of the most effective is CliffPlane-02 although it has a somewhat "cartoony" look to it. All of the displacements are based on Smooth Voroni 3D Cell shader noise and CliffFace-07 also has some square noise courtesy of Hetzen and mhaze (See here (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23731.msg240082.html#msg240082)).

The WhiteCliffs-01 is an obvious choice but other than dropping a Spitfire into it I don't really see where to go with this one.

Feedback very welcome although there is probably not much to say at the moment.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on January 12, 2018, 09:09:57 PM
01 has my attention for certain ! Great start on all of them that's for certain
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 13, 2018, 06:21:03 AM
Mix between 02 and 07 I'd say. It's paramount to get the 'repetition' out and make the rock natural and logical, but you got really far already. Worthy adversary, that's for sure  ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Hannes on January 13, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
I'd say a mix between 01 and 07. Great and interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 14, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Further updates.
I have been experimenting with using Vector displacement.
Creating VDM (vector Displacement Maps) looks to be beyond my scope for the time being but there is still a lot that can be done within Terragen itself.
I used  a bright green Simple shape shader with a bevelled fall off to displace in the y axis and a turquoise copy of the same shader displacing in the z direction to turn the 45 degree bevelled edge into a vertical cliff face.

I'm still basing the fine detail on the square noise (see above) although it has been heavily modified to provide more irregularity. I think I need to break up the cliff face so there are large sheer faces with minimal displacement (very hard to climb) and other much more broken areas with lots of detailed displacement.

No texturing at all as as yet.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 14, 2018, 01:22:20 PM
Quite the challenge all! Good progress!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Danny on January 14, 2018, 02:16:22 PM
These are looking pretty good Richard
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 14, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Thanks for sharing your workflow, Richard. Looks really good.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 14, 2018, 03:13:19 PM
Thanks for sharing your workflow, Richard. Looks really good.
Thanks :)
For me it's an essential part of the challenge, for others less so but "vive la difference" as they say.

A larger version, VectorCliffFace-12. I'm not happy about the rounded shapes to the right and on the far left there is a very obvious repeating pattern.
There are also many torn/stretched areas which look kind of weird, almost melted. They are not everywhere so I'll have to figure what part of the displacement is causing them.

I'm not concerned about the large gap at the bottom for the moment

Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: j meyer on January 14, 2018, 03:45:51 PM
 8) Very promising.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: inkydigit on January 15, 2018, 09:43:26 AM
 8)
Very cool stuff Richard...
These all look awesome,
Especially the vector displacement
I hear strains of Dame Vera, no? ;)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 15, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
I think I managed to get rid of the rounded aspects although I suspect this will be dependant on the PF's used to do the large scale displacements and re-directs.

...
I hear strains of Dame Vera, no? ;)

I may go in that direction just for the "Blighty" of it but I don't want that to be my final submission. Could be fun though :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Artice-3d on January 15, 2018, 12:43:45 PM
Mmm... It's really, really good.. Best picture and technique in this challenge so far  :o 8) ;) ;D
------------------------------

But in the race to get good sharp angles you've got too many artifacts, not only at the bottom, but at sides of cliff too.. The rest is well done, shapes is very promising  ::) ;) ;) Guys you're so talented and amazing  ;) :-X
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 15, 2018, 01:34:07 PM
Thankyou :)

...
But in the race to get good sharp angles you've got too many artifacts, not only at the bottom, but at sides of cliff too.. The rest is well done, shapes is very promising  ::) ;) ;) Guys you're so talented and amazing  ;) :-X

Yes I agree.
And it will probably get worse before it gets better. Once the cliffs are put in a scene with more landscape, rolling hills etc they will no longer be an isolated entity. The displacements of the rest of the scene will have an impact on the cliffs too (unless I can isolate them).
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Kadri on January 15, 2018, 03:12:07 PM

Nice rocks. Looks very promising.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: AndyWelder on January 20, 2018, 10:25:23 AM
After I saw all the other rocks I thought nothing further would surprise me. Was I wrong!  ::)
Curious about how they will look with some more terrain.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 21, 2018, 09:38:05 AM
It's all very well making a cliff on it's own but combining that into a terrain creates a whole bunch of new problems. The underlying terrain alters the shape of the cliff and small fractal displacements end up breaking the cliff texture ...

Smoothing filter to the rescue (it's hiding in "Other shaders").

In many ways this is a step backwards but I'm going to have to overcome these problems at some point so sooner is better than later.
Colour version for fun.

Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: cyphyr on January 22, 2018, 11:55:21 PM
It's a great learning process. Sometimes you just have to go back to basics and work from the ground up :)
Also I love how the chats on this forum inspire and inform.
Those blue nodes have a lot to teach. The Diff-Cliff images are based on multiple layers of Voroni 3D Diff Scalars.
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on January 23, 2018, 12:25:09 AM
Sometimes you have to read between the lines too! Responses to posts can be a very valuable source of information. Sometimes things explode or warp unlike you are thinking but even then you learn something useful. No shortage of help here for sure, yourself included. :)
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: zaxxon on January 23, 2018, 12:59:01 AM
Those last shapes show a lot of refinement of your process. They're really looking good!
Title: Re: Richard Fraser Cliff Challenge WIP
Post by: Dune on January 23, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Great progress. I like to build from scratch every time again. It's like cooking a meal, better start with fresh ingredients than stuffing old fries in a pan  ;)