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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: AtlJimK on January 26, 2016, 09:43:38 AM

Title: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: AtlJimK on January 26, 2016, 09:43:38 AM
Feature request. Would be very helpful. Thanks.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2016, 01:31:40 PM
This is definitely something we are considering for the future. What would your specific use be?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: AtlJimK on January 26, 2016, 01:34:21 PM
For use in 3dsmax with VRay.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2016, 01:41:26 PM
Thanks for the quick response. So you are hoping to do primary rendering of volumetric effects in Vray, using Terragen-generated cloud shapes?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: AtlJimK on January 26, 2016, 01:43:26 PM
That is correct. Sooner the better for me. I assume that the animation would carry over also. Thanks.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2016, 01:45:02 PM
I'm not sure if this is something we'll be able to offer soon, but as I mentioned it's definitely something we're interested in. Can I ask the specific reasons why you'd prefer not to render the volumetrics natively in Terragen?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: AtlJimK on January 26, 2016, 01:47:34 PM
My group uses 3dsmax/VRay for Arch/EngViz exclusively. TG is the best environmental renderer out there but there is no practical way we could move our work into TG for production purposes.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2016, 01:52:58 PM
Yes, I understand. For the cloud/volumetric rendering on its own you could certainly render in TG and output to isolated cloud render elements with alpha. But I realize it may not be worth it for the adjustment in workflow.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Tangled-Universe on February 03, 2016, 07:27:06 AM
I find that a bit curious though...

Adjusting your pipeline is something you ideally wish to avoid, but at what cost?

TG's cloud rendering is one of the best out there, if not *the* best.
The first Vray/whatever renderer outperforming TG visually and in speed for cloud rendering; I haven't seen one so far.

So you can stick to your pipeline and still try doing it through openVDB and get slower and less good looking results.
Or you can render nicer results quicker in TG to render passes and composite those in.

It's something you need to consider and the consideration has probably been made, but I often get the feeling there's a strong bias even *before* it's being considered.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: paq on February 04, 2016, 09:56:56 AM
I don't think people will use .vdb to export complete cloudscape from Terragen to replace a sky backplate. (Files generated will be way too huge).
But a way to export localized cloud would be awesome. (If it's technically possible).

Mostly all render engine now can render .vdb volumetric, maybe not as good as Terragen, but it's possible to get really nice result.

But here are not many tools to generate 'realistic' clouds shape, and the existing one are really slow, because they work directly with voxel grid.
Changing a setting in an houdini cloud rig can take many minutes just to re-generate the grid.

Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: KyL on February 04, 2016, 11:38:41 AM
I had to do something like this at work.
The amount of points you need to export to match details out of a Terragen render is just *ridiculous*. It can still be usefull to get the general cloud shape, but you will have to add procedural details, the same way you do in Terragen.

One solution I ended up doing was rendering clouds elevation maps. This is not a correct representation of the volume, but you can use that to generate a volume that's quite close to the one rendered in Terragen.

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on February 03, 2016, 07:27:06 AM
The first Vray/whatever renderer outperforming TG visually and in speed for cloud rendering; I haven't seen one so far.

I second that, I still haven't seen a better volumetric renderer.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Alexn007 on July 04, 2016, 01:27:20 PM
I would love to see open VDB supported in Terragen 4. I could model specific cloud shapes export vdb's and then render in terragen 4.  I believe this could open up many opportunities for VFX work. Terragen is definitely one of the finest if not the finest cloud rendering software, then to have completely art directed clouds...  That's huge.

My two cents,
Alex
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Darknight on August 02, 2016, 06:27:02 PM
I second what Alexn007 said. If we can get some sort of clouds sculpting geo to direct the volume of the clouds to make it more art directable, that will put Terragen even higher in terms of what it is used for in games and film.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Oshyan on August 03, 2016, 06:45:44 PM
You can bet we are are thinking hard about how to best approach these problems and what tech to implement. As we've said, Terragen 4.0 is just the beginning...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Alexn007 on September 30, 2016, 04:51:29 PM
That's great news!!  Looking forward to the future.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: philhub on April 28, 2017, 03:11:30 PM
Hello guys,
I also think that possibility to import VDB over export is definitely the way to go. Being able to model precise cloud shapes in any other 3d package would be very very nice.
Is there any news about an upcoming import feature. Is there any chance to have a approximate schedule ?
Thanks for your hard work, your software have really really nice looking results.
Cheers
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: ackdoh on January 17, 2020, 08:18:55 PM
Quote from: Darknight on August 02, 2016, 06:27:02 PMI second what Alexn007 said. If we can get some sort of clouds sculpting geo to direct the volume of the clouds to make it more art directable, that will put Terragen even higher in terms of what it is used for in games and film.
I have to resurrect this thread because of these reasons. There are times when just procedural is fine, but to truly be unique, the clouds need to be art directable, mainly through geo or sculpted geos via VDB import. From what I see too, the quality of Terragen renderer for skies is very nice. We've been testing with other renderers like Vray/Houdini/Redshift and they don't match it very well. Do you know if this is still a feature being worked on? It would truly bring Terragen to another level.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: WAS on January 17, 2020, 08:25:12 PM
I do not believe Matt has any plans for a VDB importer (besides this dead topic I have not seen it mentioned), but it would be nice. I imagine TG could make VDBs look subperb. I have a problem with other renderers. For example, there's a lot of hype with Houdini and I feel it's using ground-relative smoke simulation that looks very unrealistic as clouds in lighter atmosphere and updrafts and downdrafts and side-to-side movement and growth. Always ends up looking like odd smoke clouds to me. I am a very hard to convince on realism though.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Kadri on January 17, 2020, 08:44:29 PM
I think he plans to do it Jordan. But i don't know when or in how shape it is now (works in the Linux version i think?):

https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24058.msg242926.html#msg242926
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Kadri on January 17, 2020, 08:48:43 PM
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26130.msg259617.html#msg259617
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: WAS on January 19, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
That's awesome. Though I think it may be awhile off. We still need Windows VDB exporting.

Though I think with Windows 10 now shipping with the option for the Windows Linux Subsystem, you can install Ubuntu from Windows Store and probably export/render with the Terragen Node on Windows without much performance hit. Haven't tried it as ironically it won't install on my computer (nothing will from Windows Store on this CyberpowerPC windows 10 install).
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 20, 2020, 10:15:18 AM
VDB for Windows software is not very straightforward since there are no public windows binaries available and one needs to figure out all dependencies themselves to make it work.

This has been the status quo for quite a while, but because of this topic I just discovered someone finally managed to fight his way through the process:
https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/?place=forum/openvdb-forum&showsearch=true&showpopout=true&showtabs=false&parenturl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openvdb.org%2Fforum%2F#!topic/openvdb-forum/6mqzyeZnQTA (https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/?place=forum/openvdb-forum&showsearch=true&showpopout=true&showtabs=false&parenturl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openvdb.org%2Fforum%2F#!topic/openvdb-forum/6mqzyeZnQTA)

A walkthrough PDF of the process can be found here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/puzcp1kjaav02bg/AADrqqWHb-6EM3-XOu_h8P8ra?dl=0&preview=Installation+of+OpenVDB+in+Windows+ver+1.1.pdf
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: Matt on January 20, 2020, 12:57:04 PM
I'll need to get VDB working on Windows before I'll write the VDB importer. I can't give a timeframe these things yet, but they are both high priority.

Thanks for the links, Martin, and thanks for explaining the difficulties.
Title: Re: Export Clouds to OpenVDB
Post by: WAS on January 20, 2020, 02:00:31 PM
I think this is exactly why Windows added the Windows Subsystem for Linux. There are a lot of dependencies which make no sense on windows and often for a small task. And at that point doesn't make much sense -- especially when you factor in for production rendering, most these machines will be Linux based.

I'm curious if Matt could make it work with the WSL alone without the need for a OS like Ubuntu which installs ontop of WSL. That way to get these features in TG one could just enable the WSL and Terragen can tunnel Linux features.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10

From the looks of it though, Matt would probably have to create his own light kernel for TG so maybe not the best route.