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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: AndyWelder on April 02, 2009, 07:05:55 AM

Title: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: AndyWelder on April 02, 2009, 07:05:55 AM
Though I have this new toy now, greedy me also wants to play with the promised new plants from XFrog... Where can I find them?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 02, 2009, 07:19:54 AM
That would be XFrog's department. Hopefully Stewart can chime in.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: AndyWelder on April 02, 2009, 07:26:58 AM
Quote
Hopefully Stewart can chime in.
That would be great, it just so happens that I have a whole week vacation, starting today :D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 02, 2009, 07:31:55 AM
Lucky you! What a nice coincidence. ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Goms on April 02, 2009, 08:34:32 AM
@Oshyan: Maybe the Planetside staff can go on vacation now too. For a few days. ;)
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Marcos Silveira on April 02, 2009, 11:08:57 AM
Quote
Hopefully Stewart can chime in.
That would be great, it just so happens that I have a whole week vacation, starting today :D

A week vacation?!? I just started my one month vacation in April first (it's not a fool's day joke).
I want the "beast" right now!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: buzzzzz1 on April 02, 2009, 01:54:25 PM
Good question Andy.

Xfrog and reasonable price in the same sentence ?! Oo'
didn't heard about this urban legend, sorry...

Hi, it's me, the Urban Cowpoke.

We are releasing, XfrogPlants for Terragen 2, the same day as the release of Terragen 2.

That has been agreed upon, by myself, Stewart McSherry, ceo of xfrog inc. and Mssr. Matt Fairclough, author extraordinaire of the Terragen thing.

Via handshake and bottle of 2003 Delas Hermitage, Feb 18 2009, 8pm, we agreed on a March launch.

Which means it is finally happening. You are getting a release of TG2 and a release of many affordable plants to go with.

 




I guess a Hand Shake doesn't mean anything these days?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Seth on April 02, 2009, 02:49:55 PM
hehehe
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 02, 2009, 02:56:16 PM
...must have been the bottle of Delas Hermitage...




Hi, it's me, the Urban Cowpoke.

We are releasing, XfrogPlants for Terragen 2, the same day as the release of Terragen 2.

That has been agreed upon, by myself, Stewart McSherry, ceo of xfrog inc. and Mssr. Matt Fairclough, author extraordinaire of the Terragen thing.

Via handshake and bottle of 2003 Delas Hermitage, Feb 18 2009, 8pm, we agreed on a March launch.

Which means it is finally happening. You are getting a release of TG2 and a release of many affordable plants to go with.

 




I guess a Hand Shake doesn't mean anything these days?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: xfrog on April 15, 2009, 12:31:42 AM
Matt mainly released TG2 to satisfy existing owners, not to create a schism between Xfrog and Terragen.



Our joint effort is releasing on April 22, Earth Day.

Delay is my fault, Apologies to the group,

-stewart



...must have been the bottle of Delas Hermitage...




Hi, it's me, the Urban Cowpoke.

We are releasing, XfrogPlants for Terragen 2, the same day as the release of Terragen 2.

That has been agreed upon, by myself, Stewart McSherry, ceo of xfrog inc. and Mssr. Matt Fairclough, author extraordinaire of the Terragen thing.

Via handshake and bottle of 2003 Delas Hermitage, Feb 18 2009, 8pm, we agreed on a March launch.

Which means it is finally happening. You are getting a release of TG2 and a release of many affordable plants to go with.

 




I guess a Hand Shake doesn't mean anything these days?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 15, 2009, 12:33:49 AM
interesting date choice ;)

look forward to it.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: AndyWelder on April 15, 2009, 08:16:49 AM
Thank you for the heads up.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 15, 2009, 11:38:05 AM
Thanks Stewart.  No worries.

Looking forward to Earth Day.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: otakar on April 15, 2009, 03:02:29 PM
Here we go again. TG announcements coming from XFrog. Matt or Oshyan, can you please confirm this? If the 22nd is the day, can you share the new pricing with us?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: buzzzzz1 on April 15, 2009, 04:21:56 PM
First it was to be in Jan. 09,  then it was March 09 and now it's Apr. 22nd.   At this point I don't think I would announce anything. When it's ready just let us know, if you find the time.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cyphyr on April 15, 2009, 04:30:01 PM
I don't really care when TG2 goes public finally, we got a product that for the most part works just fine. I do find it odd however that the CEO of a company that only has a peripheral (literally?) interest in Planetside is our main source of announcements. It just seems wrong and (tbh) a little rude! Maybe Matt, Jo or Oshyian should start making announcements over at XFrog! Is'nt "XFrog4 stand alone" coming out soon, supposed to be the "Badgers Nadgers" (oh and how long has that been in dev?!?), maybe we should drop over to their forum and make a few announcements!! lol
richard
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 15, 2009, 06:27:45 PM
There's an earth day? :D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: matrix2003 on April 16, 2009, 12:48:45 AM
Well there was an Earth Day.

Bush penned a presidential signing a few years back that said that was scientifically not supported.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cyphyr on April 16, 2009, 02:17:32 AM
Love your new avatar matrix2003
;)
richard
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Anders on April 16, 2009, 05:32:43 AM
I don't really care when TG2 goes public finally, we got a product that for the most part works just fine.

Well, you might have if you are running the update from within TG2, but I haven't Internet access on the system running TG2, so I really do care when they are going to drop me a mail with the download link.

Our joint effort is releasing on April 22, Earth Day.

-stewart

Why can't we get this from Planetside staff instead of from you?

Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 16, 2009, 08:37:06 AM
Our joint effort is releasing on April 22, Earth Day.

-stewart

Why can't we get this from Planetside staff instead of from you?



Because it was xfrogs cock up.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 16, 2009, 12:45:53 PM
I don't really care when TG2 goes public finally, we got a product that for the most part works just fine.

Well, you might have if you are running the update from within TG2, but I haven't Internet access on the system running TG2, so I really do care when they are going to drop me a mail with the download link.


you can either email planetside and they will help you with that, or install beta on a computer just for the upgrade process, download the upgrade, and then move it to a flash drive or whatever to install on the other computer.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mandrake on April 16, 2009, 03:28:38 PM
Love your new avatar matrix2003
;)
richard

You do, I think I was looking at it for a few minutes before I snapped out of it. ;)
I agree with you about x-frog, unless they can tell me when the 64bit ver of TG2 will be out.
Will it be out by the time win 7 64 is ready?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 17, 2009, 04:20:51 AM
The link for registered users to upgrade will be sent out soon. Stewart's post was informal, and I think he hoped to make up for the delay by doing so, but you shouldn't consider it a formal announcement. We're working toward a proper announcement with full details.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 17, 2009, 07:33:49 AM
The link for registered users to upgrade will be sent out soon.

I got that e-mail today..!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Anders on April 17, 2009, 09:00:29 PM
The link for registered users to upgrade will be sent out soon. Stewart's post was informal, and I think he hoped to make up for the delay by doing so, but you shouldn't consider it a formal announcement. We're working toward a proper announcement with full details.

- Oshyan

Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: buzzzzz1 on April 21, 2009, 04:03:24 PM
The link for registered users to upgrade will be sent out soon. Stewart's post was informal, and I think he hoped to make up for the delay by doing so, but you shouldn't consider it a formal announcement. We're working toward a proper announcement with full details.

- Oshyan

Besides Tomorrow is Earth Day right?

This was posted in the Xfrog Yahoo Group on Apr. 20     So there must be something to it.

Quote: On Earth Day, we will release something very special in conjunction with Planetside Software, on our website.

Please stay tuned.

stewart mcsherry
xfrog inc | greenworks organic software
503 boccaccio ave
venice ca 90291
310 933 5949

Do you people talk to each other?   It would be a good idea before posting this type of stuff on the internet for everyone to read. 
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Kranky on April 22, 2009, 05:07:10 PM
Happy Earth Day!!! :)

Were can I find this "very special" thing? ??? ;D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 22, 2009, 07:57:31 PM
Tomorrow, 'Earth Day 2.0.2.1'  :P
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 22, 2009, 07:58:23 PM
Oh yeah.  Where's the announcement...thing...stuffs.   :o
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Klas on April 22, 2009, 08:03:56 PM
http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/news/Terragen2_XfrogPlants_EarthDay.html
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 22, 2009, 08:07:23 PM
Darn.  I left my $699 at home in my other wallet.  Shucks.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 08:11:10 PM
......

figures....

not to mention this includes tg2 anim in the price... what about us prepurchasers who don't need another tg key and just want models?

and i think they completly ignored the fact that we as a community would want small groups of plants at good price....

not huge libraries that are expensive... sure the cost per plant might be great... but... im a college student... i barely scrounged up money for tg2...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: RArcher on April 22, 2009, 08:15:51 PM
Not exactly the plan I would have gone with personally.  $700, in the middle of a global recession, valid only until May 30th at which time I would guess the price increases along with the TG2 price.  I can't see this doing all that well if it is targeted at the mostly hobbyist demographic that uses Terragen.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Klas on April 22, 2009, 08:19:25 PM
It's still earth day, maybe there is coming more...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 08:23:42 PM
we can hope... that pricing is a tad out of hobbiest range, and also needs details for us prepurchasers in what the costs would be.


and cant we at least get a few free models?  maybe sampler pack of a few of each package for a much less price vs the bigger price for every single one.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: domdib on April 22, 2009, 08:25:48 PM
Should be noted that this is ALL Xfrog's plants in one package. Surely they will also sell them in the separate libraries that already exist?

More to the point, there seems an unfortunate lack of coordination going on, since this announcement points to the old Planetside site, with no mention of the gold release.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 08:28:11 PM
well xfrog's website isn't really the best and most together thing ive seen either... quite a few broken links it seems...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Klas on April 22, 2009, 08:48:46 PM
a blank page on http://www.planetside.co.uk - something happens...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 08:51:50 PM
i am able to load the page, its the new design getting moved....  constantly asked for pw though for images and such i believe, but the text layout loads.

only announcement seems to be the one we already discovered for the 699...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: matrix2003 on April 22, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
For $699.00 I would expect to landscape my backyard with heirloom roses and imported rare perennials.
What happened to the $150.00 packages?  Can't we get a reduced price on a few of those?

This is a bit much to say the least!  This roll out has been very bumpy and this seems to top that cake!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cyphyr on April 22, 2009, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: XFrog Press Release
Terragen 2 with XfrogPlants Contains:

    * Terragen 2 with Animation and 5 render node licensing.
    * 1,300 XfrogPlants in Terragen 2 format (ALL 22 XfrogPlants libraries below!)
    * http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/products/productStart.htm
    * Tutorial videos for Terragen 2 with XfrogPlants
    * Hi-resolution renderings of all 1,300 XfrogPlants in TIFF format, for compositing and billboard use

More information about Terragen 2 with XfrogPlants, including a full feature list, is available inside the Planetside website


Pricing Details:

Terragen 2 with XfrogPlants is available for immediate purchase for $699 at www.xfrog.com

Terragen 2 is available without XfrogPlants for $299 including animation, and $199 without animation, at www.planetside.co.uk.

Prices are valid now thru May 30, 2009.

Well at that price and only valid through till May 30 I really doubt they will make a single sale. Any studio would be able to make the conversions from their existing XFrog resources so would have no need to buy a bunch of stuff they already have and few hobbyists will want to stretch to $700. Sure its a good deal with the plants coming in at only $0.30 each but only by shelling out for the entire collection.

Also I note that the Upgrade offer is a little unfair (as usual)
As a user of Terragen 2 since its first demo feature release my discount is less than someone who decides to give terragen a go for the first time now.
Quote from: XFrog press release
Terragen 2 Upgrade Offer:

Existing Terragen 2 customers are entitled to a credit coupon towards Terragen 2 with XfrogPlants
equivalent to their original purchase price. Please contact registrations@planetside.co.uk for complete information.
It'd be nice if someone from planetside would chime in here.

Personally I don't see anything here for loyal Terragen users (why would there be, this is XFrog's anouncement). I already own all the terragens I need (1 plus 5 render nodes) and I have no desire to shell out $400 (I "think" thats how much it'll be with the owners discount) for a stack of models most of which I'll never use.

:)

richard
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: matrix2003 on April 22, 2009, 09:13:42 PM
" That's right you dedicated T 2 people,   only $400.00 act now, limited time offer.  "

Appears Buzzzzzz was correct all along.  I am amazed this passed the Planetside sniff test.
Something this pricey could have been presented a little better!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 22, 2009, 09:20:04 PM
Well, it's nice for earth day, and it's nice for production companies, but it's not nice for us...

€699 is more than I earn per month. But as I already have deep+animation it would 'only' be 400. But as I only earn so much and have to spend it on living as well, it isn't a proposition for the hobbyist.

I sincerely hope there's more to come in the free price range (if you can even properly call that a price range...). And a month and 8 days isn't a lot of time to come up with such a mounts of money anyways, at least, not for us.


On the other hand (and I just thought of this), this means that the price per package is only $18. which is more reasonable pricing, IF the packages were available on their own.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 09:26:06 PM
how xfrog can get my money:

compile all the plants together at a large price

create a deal with tg2 users released only in tgo format or something like that, and offer it as digital downloads like turbo squid... only not at $30 per... more like $1-5.

anything over that as a hobbiest/student i cant justify.  hell i'd even pay like a $20 limited time activation offer to access the deal, and then be able to pay/download them for $1-5 as I please/need.

at $30/species i can't justify downloding them one by one, and at what is basically 400 dollars i cant justify buying them together, and at even 150/for 20 i cant.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 22, 2009, 09:39:58 PM
I apologize for taking a little while to respond to this topic, but as you can imagine we're pretty busy trying to roll everything out. I am sorry if that has meant that communication with the user community was not the best.

That being said I'm a bit saddened by the reactions here so far. Here are the bullet points of the announcement which will hopefully put it in perspective:

- For the next 30 days pricing on TG2 Deep and Deep + Animation is the same as it always was. This is the "grace period" we promised for those who wanted to see the final prices before buying, and still wanted to get in on the pre-purchase price. I think this is fairly generous.

- The price after the 30th is going up $100 for each of Planetside's products. So for TG2 Deep, it's going to be $299 and $399 for Deep+Animation. This is a pretty reasonable price increase, not too much, but definitely a decent discount for those who purchased early.

- The Xfrog bundle includes *all* of Xfrog's 1300 plants. As far as I know there is no other bundle like this available anywhere, and the price is excellent. If you were to buy those plants in XFrog's own separate bundles you would spend $2000! Granted they are only in TGO format, so for those who use multiple apps it is less appealing, but for a TG2 user it's an extremely good price. I understand it's still out of reach of many people and that's unfortunate, but there is no doubt it is a great discount.

- For those who already purchased TG2 there is a coupon discount off the bundle equivalent to your original purchase price. So pre-purchasers are at no disadvantage for this bundle purchase.

- Xfrog is responsible for any additional product options they might make available, like individual plant sales. I do know that they are interested in doing this, but beyond that I don't know any details about whether this is coming soon or not. I think it would be a great option, but keep in mind that per-plant the prices would necessarily be much higher than the bundle (which works out to 45 *cents* per plant variation). Of course for those people who only need a few specific plants, the "a la carte" option would be more interesting, and I hope that does become available.

- I can't give any information or update on any additional free Xfrog resources that may be coming as those are of course Xfrog's responsibility. I know Stewart did talk about that previously so I will try to have him come and give an update about that, but he's quite busy today (understandably) so it may not be immediately. However Planetside does have a few additional free models we will make available soon.

- The website is still being finalized, some of the content from the old site that was useful will need to be added. We have launched the site for the product announcement today, and we will continue to improve it. One thing of note is we haven't been able to add image credits to all images, but we will definitely be doing that, and a *big* thank you goes out to everyone who allowed us to use their fantastic images! In the meantime if you find any broken links, formatting problems, etc. feel free to email them directly to me at oshyan AT planetside.co.uk

I hope you can see now that the $699 option is specific to the Xfrog bundle deal (and it's a good deal), and that the prices of TG2 as a standalone product remain reasonable and within reach of the hobbyist. We are happy to be working with Xfrog and I think the arrangement we have worked out is a great option for certain customers. But Planetside is still only a software developer, not a content provider, so it's up to other vendors to provide other options for the hobbyist. We do the best we can for our own products (e.g. free version of TG2).

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 09:45:29 PM
I hope you can see now that the $699 option is specific to the Xfrog bundle deal (and it's a good deal), and that TG2's prices remain reasonable and within reach of the hobbyist.

- Oshyan

that i do, especially with your generous educational discounts.  you guys are very good to your market, which seems to be pretty much hobbiests.  Which is why yes the xfrog part of all those models is very awesome, and if i was rich id hop right on that deal. but paying more for plants then i am the program i want to put them in just doesn't compute.  what we really need is small packages at decent prices for a decent amount of content, all easily downloadable from online.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: AndyWelder on April 22, 2009, 09:53:05 PM
I only hope this doesn't mark a change in course by PS, now solely aiming at the high end market/users and leaving the long time hobbyists who supported Terragen for all these years out in the cold. It took me quite a while to scratch together the money to buy TG2 because I have a family to support (and admit I was pleasantly surprised by the discount for registered users!) but the pricing by Xfrog is way out of my range so I have to forget about decent looking vegetation (apart from the few free items I was able to download while lighning could share his stuff and some of the later plants by a few contributors)
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 22, 2009, 09:56:51 PM
I only hope this doesn't mark a change in course by PS, now solely aiming at the high end market/users and leaving the long time hobbyists who supported Terragen for all these years out in the cold. It took me quite a while to scratch together the money to buy TG2 because I have a family to support (and admit I was pleasantly surprised by the discount for registered users!) but the pricing by Xfrog is way out of my range so I have to forget about decent looking vegetation (apart from the few free items I was able to download while lighning could share his stuff and some of the later plants by a few contributors)

We are certainly not abandoning the hobbyist market. As I said above, our prices remain in a similar range (while increasing a reasonable amount as we always said they would), and we will continue to make a free, non-commercial product available, free of watermarks and logos, without time restriction.

As far as plants and other resources, I think the market is ripe for lower price points on individually packaged goods, and I hope Xfrog capitalizes on that. I think one way or another, whether it's Xfrog or another vendor, you can bet it will happen soon.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 22, 2009, 10:05:54 PM
What ever happened to those "free high quality" TGO's xfrog said were going to be offered in tandem with TG2's gold release?  Did I miss though, or did they never amount to anything?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: reck on April 22, 2009, 10:16:45 PM
Oshyan I have nothing negative to say regarding the planetside side of things at all. The TG2 price I think is more than reasonable and even when it goes up to full price it's still a good deal. Also the grace period is a great thing for those people that haven't purchased yet, (why not?).

But like others I am disappointed with the xfrog offer. I was hoping for a small free package of maybe 10 or 20 plants with an offer to buy a set of maybe a 100 plants or so at a discount price for TG users. Also maybe sets of 100 plants for sale at a cheaper price of say $15-$20. It just doesn't seem to make sense to pay $400 for some models when the software your going to use them in is only $300. But the real kicker is that 3ds max and maya users just got a 100 xfrog plants for free which technically we can use in TG2 as well but are told that tg2 users will have to buy their plants at $400 which is way, way out of my spending budget when I don't use TG2 to make money, I just can't justify that. Yeah the price per plant is good but the problem is the initial cost, i'd rather pay more per plant but get a smaller bundle.

Congratulations on the site btw, it looks great.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: sjefen on April 22, 2009, 10:27:34 PM
Hi Oshyan,

I am a owner of Terragen 2 and was just wondering, if I come up with $400, do I then also get this box right here (http://www.xfrog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GOSS&Product_Code=X-44&Category_Code=X)? Also... are you planing a box release later?

I must say I'm pretty surprised by the Terragen 2 price increase. I was sure it would go up to about $600-700. Or $599-699 ;)
$399 is a very good price :)

I also wonder where those free plants are, but I guess that's a question for Xfrog.

- Terje
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 22, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
For everyone asking, I'd like to point out this:


- I can't give any information or update on any additional free Xfrog resources that may be coming as those are of course Xfrog's responsibility. I know Stewart did talk about that previously so I will try to have him come and give an update about that, but he's quite busy today (understandably) so it may not be immediately. However Planetside does have a few additional free models we will make available soon.

- Oshyan

And I think it might be time for me to crack open the piggy bank, and perhaps stay at home during my vacation...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 22, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
Terje, the Xfrog plant models are very large, so you would definitely be getting those on DVD. I'm not sure if it also ships with the TG2 DVD or not. That would be a question for Xfrog as they're handling physical product fulfillment at this time. We do not have specific plans for a boxed product ourselves, but we'll definitely consider it. We do certainly like the advantages of a digital product delivery system though (and hey, it's Earth Day, so it's environmentally friendly too!), and a boxed product would cost more if nothing else.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 22, 2009, 10:46:04 PM
only thing that might be nice is a printed out manual/guide and such available.  i don't really care for a cd of the tg release, as its only what, a few mb? digital is definitely better for such things.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: sjefen on April 22, 2009, 10:50:26 PM
Thanks Oshyan.

- Terje
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 22, 2009, 10:53:12 PM
Yes, we might provide a printed manual in the future, either as part of a retail package, or as a separate purchase. We also will be looking at bundled content, which would significantly increase download size, so that might make a packaged option more attractive.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: sjefen on April 22, 2009, 10:58:16 PM
That sounds cool.
I'll promise I wont throw the plastic enclosure in the nature ;)

- Terje
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Cyber-Angel on April 22, 2009, 11:17:04 PM
I am now in two minds about a printed manual, however they do serve a purpose; if such a thing where produced in the future my request is that it be spiral bound so that it can be opened flat some thing you can not do with a hard spine, as that kind of binding while looking better tends to crack.

There is the question of how often the printed manual would be updated, for cost saving I would think only for full versions as incremental versions that may only have a few additions lets say bug fixes of minor new features would best be served either by a PDF manual (Offline) or a link to the forums, any new changes if the PDF manual route is used would be reflected in the "Whats New" section of that document.

 ;D

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel             
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Jack on April 22, 2009, 11:31:57 PM
couldn't you do it yourself the node reference guide has a print version :o
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 22, 2009, 11:38:56 PM
couldn't you do it yourself the node reference guide has a print version :o

Just a heads up, the Node Reference still has some updating to be done. We've had to put that on hold while we finalize the release, but in a few days we'll be able to refocus effort there. There is more existing content that just needs to be converted to the proper format (which takes longer than you'd think, but less time than writing new stuff! ;D). We're also considering making the node reference available in a complete PDF format, although it is quite an inefficient way to access it, and is over 700 pages!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 23, 2009, 12:38:18 AM
also considering making the node reference available in a complete PDF format, although it is quite an inefficient way to access it, and is over 700 pages!

- Oshyan

i would love a pdf version, especially if its properly set up with bookmarks and such it would be very easy to navigate and such only be usable offline ;).
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: xfrog on April 23, 2009, 01:19:22 AM
A few free XfrogPlants coming this week.  Yes, you get that box.  With 4 full DVDs inside. 15 Gb of plants.


Hi Oshyan,

I am a owner of Terragen 2 and was just wondering, if I come up with $400, do I then also get this box right here (http://www.xfrog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GOSS&Product_Code=X-44&Category_Code=X)? Also... are you planing a box release later?

I must say I'm pretty surprised by the Terragen 2 price increase. I was sure it would go up to about $600-700. Or $599-699 ;)
$399 is a very good price :)

I also wonder where those free plants are, but I guess that's a question for Xfrog.

- Terje
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: xfrog on April 23, 2009, 01:23:12 AM
We cannot sell 100 plants for $15. 
Autodesk paid a very large sum of money to acquire rights to distribute 100 species to Autodesk users.
They will go after anyone who migrates those out of Autodesk products. 
Planetside could not really pay a license so we decided to together make a bundle and sell plants at an extreme
discount price.   We thought about different sizes of bundles, and in the end i just decided to offer them all, in one
big bang of 4 DVDs, 15 Gb of plants, inside Terragen 2.   Because that gives a lot of possibilities that no software has ever offered.  You can make entire Jungles, flower gardens, Deserts, underwater scenes, Prehistoric worlds, etc.  I thought it would be the most attractive idea, to offer all we have ever created to Terragen 2 users. 

Oshyan I have nothing negative to say regarding the planetside side of things at all. The TG2 price I think is more than reasonable and even when it goes up to full price it's still a good deal. Also the grace period is a great thing for those people that haven't purchased yet, (why not?).

But like others I am disappointed with the xfrog offer. I was hoping for a small free package of maybe 10 or 20 plants with an offer to buy a set of maybe a 100 plants or so at a discount price for TG users. Also maybe sets of 100 plants for sale at a cheaper price of say $15-$20. It just doesn't seem to make sense to pay $400 for some models when the software your going to use them in is only $300. But the real kicker is that 3ds max and maya users just got a 100 xfrog plants for free which technically we can use in TG2 as well but are told that tg2 users will have to buy their plants at $400 which is way, way out of my spending budget when I don't use TG2 to make money, I just can't justify that. Yeah the price per plant is good but the problem is the initial cost, i'd rather pay more per plant but get a smaller bundle.

Congratulations on the site btw, it looks great.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: xfrog on April 23, 2009, 01:26:18 AM
I also agree it is odd to offer content more expensive than the underlying software.  I wish i could go lower, but really folks, where can you find 3d models for .20 cents each.  Especially of the XfrogPlants quality.  It is a set of plants that will not become boring anytime soon.  So my answer is, the underlying software is very low in price for it's underlying value (Terragen 2 is really amazing), not that the content is very expensive.

We cannot sell 100 plants for $15. 
Autodesk paid a very large sum of money to acquire rights to distribute 100 species to Autodesk users.
They will go after anyone who migrates those out of Autodesk products. 
Planetside could not really pay a license so we decided to together make a bundle and sell plants at an extreme
discount price.   We thought about different sizes of bundles, and in the end i just decided to offer them all, in one
big bang of 4 DVDs, 15 Gb of plants, inside Terragen 2.   Because that gives a lot of possibilities that no software has ever offered.  You can make entire Jungles, flower gardens, Deserts, underwater scenes, Prehistoric worlds, etc.  I thought it would be the most attractive idea, to offer all we have ever created to Terragen 2 users. 

Oshyan I have nothing negative to say regarding the planetside side of things at all. The TG2 price I think is more than reasonable and even when it goes up to full price it's still a good deal. Also the grace period is a great thing for those people that haven't purchased yet, (why not?).

But like others I am disappointed with the xfrog offer. I was hoping for a small free package of maybe 10 or 20 plants with an offer to buy a set of maybe a 100 plants or so at a discount price for TG users. Also maybe sets of 100 plants for sale at a cheaper price of say $15-$20. It just doesn't seem to make sense to pay $400 for some models when the software your going to use them in is only $300. But the real kicker is that 3ds max and maya users just got a 100 xfrog plants for free which technically we can use in TG2 as well but are told that tg2 users will have to buy their plants at $400 which is way, way out of my spending budget when I don't use TG2 to make money, I just can't justify that. Yeah the price per plant is good but the problem is the initial cost, i'd rather pay more per plant but get a smaller bundle.

Congratulations on the site btw, it looks great.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: RArcher on April 23, 2009, 01:58:42 AM
Hi Stewart,

I don't think anyone is disputing that what you are offering is of great value, because in comparison to your full boxed products it is a great deal.  This of course is if and only if Terragen 2 is the only program that you use and render with.  Since these are being offered simply as .tgo files there will never be the possibility of altering the geometry to create more variations even if you were to buy the full Xfrog software.  Because of this I would not personally expect any production studio's to buy the non-editable versions (though I certainly could be wrong on this front). I would hazard a guess that my misgivings and many others are because of the way that it is offered as a all or nothing type of package.  $400 - $500 is quite a lot to ask of someone to pay for what for many is simply a hobby.  I really think that you are missing a major segment of the Terragen 2 market by not offering a digital download by species a la cart.  Just taking the rough guesses at numbers here:  1300 plants for $400.  Say three variations each species or around 433 species, this by the package number would be around $1.10 each.  I can guarantee that you could increase that number to $2.00 per species offer it online for immediate download and sell far more than you will be able to sell a single package for $700 to a hobbyist market.

You have really put yourself in what I think is an awkward position.  Too limited and restricted for commercial users and too (initially) cost prohibitive for hobby users.

-Ryan Archer
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 23, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Is there any chance maybe you could have an additional limited time offer of maybe like 100 plants from your collection of various popular types, just of the adult variations not every single variation, and offer it at like $50 in addition to a package with terragen 2 (with the option of prepurchasers to buy just the $50 dollar package).  Because personally yes I would love 15 gigs of trees, but I don't ever see a need as a hobbiest. However, a mid sized set of a somewhat wide range of plants could be useful, and I don't need huge amounts of variations either.

I think you would have quite a few more purchases from our crowd. It still might not get my money in that time period, but if it was offered through the summer where i can get a little income, i know a decent set of models like that would get my money.

Just a thought.

*RArcher posted*
agreed.  a smaller price at a per species download, would grab the hobbiest market quickly.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 23, 2009, 02:41:55 AM
Is there any chance maybe you could have an additional limited time offer of maybe like 100 plants from your collection of various popular types, just of the adult variations not every single variation, and offer it at like $50 in addition to a package with terragen 2 (with the option of prepurchasers to buy just the $50 dollar package).  Because personally yes I would love 15 gigs of trees, but I don't ever see a need as a hobbiest. However, a mid sized set of a somewhat wide range of plants could be useful, and I don't need huge amounts of variations either.

I think you would have quite a few more purchases from our crowd. It still might not get my money in that time period, but if it was offered through the summer where i can get a little income, i know a decent set of models like that would get my money.

This right here.  I can part with $50, no issue, but on my budget $400 is well beyond the realm of possibility.  I'd love to purchase high quality plants and trees for my renders, but with all or nothing...  nothing is the *only* option.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: BangelOz on April 23, 2009, 04:02:07 AM
$400 for all xfrog plants is cheap but i think only a very few people will need all and can pay that amount. And if i'm right this ships only as a physical product, reaching me i'll have to pay customs duty in addition that increases the price to  $500-$600!

Smaller download-packages with prices for everyone are needed!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Goms on April 23, 2009, 07:22:18 AM
Overall, this is a great deal and I'm sure that i will take this chance (if i can sell this thing of spending 570$ as a student to my girlfriend :D ) to get this amazing amount of plants for this price. But i also agree to what has been posted so far; for the hobby-customers its too much because the chance that you will need even 20% of this plants is very small, for professionals its not enough because you don't get the .xfr to edit the Plants.
I would love to buy one species for 2$-4$ to just buy what i need for the image I'm creating...
But thank you for the great offer! The deal is really great, also when its not the best size for the default TG2 User. :D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 23, 2009, 07:34:50 AM
Just a note for the European crowd here: $400 is only €309...
So in our case it's less expensive than it would seem (though it's still quite a bit of money).
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: domdib on April 23, 2009, 09:46:16 AM
Obviously, Xfrog have to make their decisions based on what they think will sell, and will probably have a better idea of the proportion of professionals to Hobbyists - they may even have conducted market research on this. However, "the customer is always right", and at the moment, they should be in no doubt about the appetite for smaller packages from a small but dedicated group of potential customers who could potentially act as evangelists for their products. And I think most of us here would have reacted a little differently, if Xfrog had offered the "few free plants coming this week" at the same time as making the big announcement. I just hope that the outcome is good for Planetside, and I agree that, for those who can afford it, 1300 plants for $599 (in my case) is good value.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cyphyr on April 23, 2009, 12:36:12 PM
Just a note for the European crowd here: $400 is only €309...
So in our case it's less expensive than it would seem (though it's still quite a bit of money).
$400 = Ģ274
but last summer it would have been more like Ģ200
Funny if this had been released a year ago I'd have jumped at it, the pound was strong against the dollar, now its very weak :( and I had some change in my pocket ...
richard
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: sjefen on April 23, 2009, 01:54:45 PM
Hi Stewart,

I bought two DVD's with plant's from you guys some time ago.
If I buy this Terragen 2 deal for $400, can I then sell those two DVD's I already have?

- Terje
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 23, 2009, 02:37:05 PM
$400 = Ģ274
but last summer it would have been more like Ģ200
Funny if this had been released a year ago I'd have jumped at it, the pound was strong against the dollar, now its very weak :( and I had some change in my pocket ...
richard

Just wait till deflation kicks in ;D The RPI is already in the negative figures. One the CPI goes the same way we'll be in deflation and the price of things will start plummeting. Who knows, maybe the bank of england'll put interest rates into negative figures, then the bank can start paying my loans for me. They might even buy me the plant pack if I'm nice to them :D
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 23, 2009, 02:37:23 PM
I'll weigh in, too, and hope xFrog is listening.

We were told something about free models and inexpensive models from xFrog.  Talk about a bad taste in my mouth, when I saw the actual offer and nothing from xFrog to explain to us what they had recently said they would do for us.

Basically, we need to know you are keeping your word to this community or you can count me out on any more sales.  
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 23, 2009, 02:55:26 PM
It's not that the models are expensive (they aren't, they're very well priced), it's that they're all bundled up.  If X-Frog can offer this great deal, they can offer similiar great deals for smaller bundles at only a slightly higher cost/model, still only TGO to keep the price low, then I'd be all over it.  I can afford these X-Frog plants prices, I just can't afford all at once.

Lemmie know when these smaller bundles appear, then I'll buy some plants in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: buzzzzz1 on April 23, 2009, 03:15:39 PM
Planetside, Congrats on the new site launch and reasonable prices offered.   



Xfrog, with the way all of this has been handled from starting in Nov.08, do you think I'm going to type in $400.00 dollars and click purchase?  No Way!  I can only wish someone with some talent in creating quality plants and a good business model opens a new shop.  It's very sad but at this point I don't have any Faith or Trust in anything Xfrog says or does.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: arisdemos on April 23, 2009, 03:46:28 PM
Xfrog has kept their word as to WHEN they would begin a "new" market approach towards this forum membership's special needs, but what has emerged isn't really
any different than the past direction of Xfrog targeting essentially a commercial customer base who can more or less invest in a large library of plant props for larger scale ventures and multiple productions that can make use of a fully global faunal library. The user base of PlanetSide is mostly comprised of people who are still in what I would call a student category of CG pursuits, and this I am sure Xfrog and PS both are aware of as a contemporary reality. Xfrog drew the TG2 crowd in close for what was expected to be something for "them," and saddly Earth Day became for most of us here a commercial Strategy Day tailored not to build a market base out of a raw TG2 learning need, but for Xfrog's immediate monetary gain.  This is not building a potential market into a future entity's requirments, but rather an obvious bid to pad Xfrog's cash flow right now. What Xfrog has done is give something to their existing customer base, and so the thanks given will have to come from that quarter not the TG2 users who struggle for a little educational toe hold on a beginning software and its limitations. Thank's for trying Xfrog, but no cigar!.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Ironshirt on April 23, 2009, 04:20:02 PM
I must say I do like the new offer from Xfrog very much, but I also agree that there should be a few more packages available for people who can't afford the 400$ at once.
Another thing (already mentioned) is, that the plants come only in tgo format. There seems to be no possibility to raise up the quality of the plants, later (which may be the main reason for the low price of the package) So it would be very interesting to see some free samples first in order to check the overall quality of the plants, before buying the whole package, 'blind' somehow.
Another interesting bundle for me would be, e.g  a set of all american or european plants (also with xfr format), together with TG2 and Xfrog tune.
So I would be armed for the future if some day we have graphene-semiconductors or something ;D



Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Klas on April 23, 2009, 04:55:12 PM
So it would be very interesting to see some free samples first in order to check the overall quality of the plants,..
There is already  a free sampler in tgo format: http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/21/36/ . The BL02_Betula_lenta_Sweet_Birch is the same which is in the Basic Library of Xfrog 3.5, so I think the quality is the same as in the new Bundle. Here (http://www.terralights.de/files/albums/userpics/10002/untitled.jpg) is a render of the BL02y an BL02m (the trees on the left side).
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 23, 2009, 05:01:20 PM
I don't really get how it's a "deal". It's exactly the same price and you don't choose what you get. You might as well buy TG2 on it's own then buy the packs you actually want from xfrog. Bit of a ripoff if you ask me. I understand that xfrog is a business but it doesn't cost them more than $400 to make these things.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 23, 2009, 05:24:57 PM
I don't really get how it's a "deal". It's exactly the same price and you don't choose what you get.
It's not the same price at all! It's only $19 per package of trees, opposed to the normal $150!
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: BangelOz on April 23, 2009, 06:11:31 PM
I don't really get how it's a "deal". It's exactly the same price and you don't choose what you get.
It's not the same price at all! It's only $19 per package of trees, opposed to the normal $150!

The normal price of $150 offers a lot of formats incl. the xfrog. this new one is limited to TG2 and therefore not so cheap as it seams if you need another format - and trying to convert them - i don't know, if the objects become good...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 23, 2009, 06:18:57 PM
Where is the "per package" deal?


I don't really get how it's a "deal". It's exactly the same price and you don't choose what you get.
It's not the same price at all! It's only $19 per package of trees, opposed to the normal $150!

Not the low cost deal we were told about here - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5289.msg56161#msg56161
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 23, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
Hey, talk of free plants! - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6175.msg65271#msg65271  (from Planetside)
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: jockc on April 23, 2009, 06:40:55 PM
It's not that the models are expensive (they aren't, they're very well priced), it's that they're all bundled up.  If X-Frog can offer this great deal, they can offer similiar great deals for smaller bundles at only a slightly higher cost/model, still only TGO to keep the price low, then I'd be all over it.  I can afford these X-Frog plants prices, I just can't afford all at once.

Lemmie know when these smaller bundles appear, then I'll buy some plants in a heartbeat.

These are my exact sentiments.  I am a hobbyist, I don't need all the plants.  I just need a few here and there.  If I could buy them one by one and download them, I would be all over that.  Or even the original bundlings (but downloadable) at the TGO-only price (e.g. USA West for $20) would work. 
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: matrix2003 on April 23, 2009, 08:41:58 PM
I really do appreciate all that has been made available on this forum, the people I have met are great,  and the continuing information sharing is just awesome!  That being said, most avid terrageners are here as rabid hobbyists that want to push the limits of this toy.  1,300 plants is nothing that I will EVER need and I think most here would agree.  Pitching this to a commercial market IE: professional artists etc... would be where this would sell.  I personally was psyched to get one group of plants, and never would even consider spending 400.00 to get all of them.  Splitting this package up into smaller groups or regions would definitely be a seller here.  I have no problem with any of the pricing, but existing people on THIS current forum are looking for small pacs to play with.  If that is not available to us then you are selling this package to the wrong room. 
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: xfrog on April 23, 2009, 11:05:09 PM
More free samples coming this week.

So it would be very interesting to see some free samples first in order to check the overall quality of the plants,..
There is already  a free sampler in tgo format: http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/21/36/ . The BL02_Betula_lenta_Sweet_Birch is the same which is in the Basic Library of Xfrog 3.5, so I think the quality is the same as in the new Bundle. Here (http://www.terralights.de/files/albums/userpics/10002/untitled.jpg) is a render of the BL02y an BL02m (the trees on the left side).
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Astrian on April 23, 2009, 11:21:37 PM
Hello everybody
I was the member called lightning who used to make the plants.
I have been keeping a watch on the forums since i left after Floraworks closed and I never got the chance to to apologize to all of you for what I did and especially you Paul for not telling you What I was doing.
that aside I just want to say how disgusted I am with Stuart he promised you guys free plants and well look whats happened, I wouldn't even touch any of those plants anyway now I will tell you what really happened when Floraworks went offline

well you probably heard I modified xfrog plants then sold them on well this isn't fully true.
all my plants I built from scratch, but xfrog runs similar to terragen 2 ie you can take certain elements of a xfrog scene then import them into another, this is what i did such as certain branch parameters I imported from xfrog plants added them to my own trees then heavily modified them to fit the trees needs I know I should have never taken this shortcut and look at the consequences of my actions :-[

but in the xfrog talks to floraworks i was labeled a talentless little piece of shit that stole from xfog which is pretty much the opposite way round I will explain.
after floraworks was shut down My and Stuart engaged in conversation over email we talked about how floraworks and greenworks could merge, and how I may become one of the modelers at xfrog or modify their existing xfrog plants to bring them up to the quality of what my own plants where which where and still are leaps and bounds ahead of greenworks, so I said "yeah I could do that". And then Stuarts asked me to give him some of my  own trees so he could see how they were made (they are made completely different from xfrogs) so I sent him some of my best trees and shrubs so his Modelers could have a look at them and gain tips from them to improve their own models after I sent the clip files I never heard from Stuart again and its been nearly six months :'(

So yeah I wouldent even give them a cent
If you have the money I would highly recommend you buy this
http://www.onyxtree.com/index.html (http://www.onyxtree.com/index.html)
I purchased onyx broadleaf,conifier and flower and they are by far the best plant making software on the market plus they come with about 200 different rebuilt trees which you can easily modify.

well I hope you are all well and im glad I have told you my side of the story
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 23, 2009, 11:23:09 PM
This can't end well...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Astrian on April 23, 2009, 11:30:41 PM
also when i get a little time I will put together a pack of Hq plants that I have made from scratch I will include the xfrog files for proof
since you are a little short on plants at the moment ;) sorry I cant give you any onyxtree plants as the license does not allow it which is the only drawback of the software :-\
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 24, 2009, 01:12:44 AM
xFrog deserves what they get - ZERO of my dollars.

I hope all is well with you, lightning and that your talents are better served outside of the guise of others' mislabeled intentions.

Greenworks can have the business business.  They aren't getting mine. 

This kinda thing is the reason I hate bigger businesses.  Good riddens, Greenworks.

Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 24, 2009, 01:57:54 AM
Guys, let's please keep it civil. There's no need to "hate" Xfrog, and they're certainly not a big business. What they're offering is not of interest to you, that's fine, but there's no denying it's a good deal, and there will be people who can afford it and will really enjoy the flexibility the bundle offers.

Like you I hope that Xfrog has enough interest in the hobbyist market to make more affordable, a la carte options available, but it's unreasonable to be mad at a company if they don't offer their product at a price you can afford. If a company charges too much, they go out of business, so they lose a lot bigger than you do. If the market bears what they're charging, then they've got a good business model, and they should realistically think carefully about additions or modifications to it.

The reality is is they're making a great product, which is clear from everyone's interest here, and considering that interest I think they could do well with individual plant sales if they price it right. But we all have to keep in mind that for a business it's not as easy as just deciding one day to offer their products at a steep discount. If you sell a version of product at 1/5th the price of a similar existing product, you need to either have reasonable expectation that it won't cut into your existing sales, or have reasonable expectation of getting 5 times the sales volume, neither of which is usually a safe assumption. Per unit pricing and bundle options are a critical concern.

I hope that Xfrog finds a sustainable and successful way to reach a wider audience. I think everyone would benefit.

As for "Astrian/Lightning", there's no doubt that use of other people's copyrighted material is not right, even if it's just a portion of it. The law is less clear on "fair use" in cases of heavy modification, but it gets very tricky with software because the arguments about what constitutes "significant" modification can be complex and uncertain. It's never a good idea to do what he did, and he's acknowledged that which is good. If he can once again offer resources to the community with complete legality, I applaud and encourage that. But while Xfrog may not have worked out a deal with him and that may frustrate some of you, remember that Xfrog had every right to do what they did and they could have gone further but didn't.

All in all I think we're at a decent place, so let's keep it that way. We'll all keep hoping for and encouraging individuals and companies to offer good hobbyist-level products and pricing, and I'm sure the market will manifest it sooner than later given the clear demand. In the meantime at Planetside our pricing and product structure makes a clear statement about our support for this market.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 24, 2009, 02:10:05 AM
Oshyan: I have no problem with Xfrog's deal.  For those with $400 to throw around it's fantastic, and you're right, they don't *have* to pander to us and offer better deals for smaller bundles or what have you...

Yet, I find it funny that they feel the need then to constantly hint at such things, and then announce to us some "Special goings on" obviously hyping us up to what we feel is going to target the community here, and then go completely against what they were saying to us.  Looking at things from this perspective, it's very very disappointing.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 24, 2009, 02:11:42 AM
Its nice to see you again lightning. I've been missing nice free high quality models.  Just this time lets keep them legal, that would be very nice.

Onyx tree looks interesting, I'll have to browse around about it.  I see they have student pricing, thats always a plus for me ;)
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Oshyan on April 24, 2009, 02:19:38 AM
Zylot, yes you're absolutely right, and I hope they do come through. There is still that possibility you know, even if it's late. ;)

I certainly don't think their hintings are malicious. It has taken a lot of work to get to the point of release both for Planetside and for Xfrog with the bundle. I can't speak for them, but I would think they simply underestimated the time involved to do this, and were expecting to be able to make more progress on other projects, release free plants, etc. in the same time frame. Having seen how these sort of promises go from the back end, it can be very frustrating on the other end of things as well, thinking that you have something "in the bag" and then running up against more problems than you ever thought possible. That is of course why we stopped making release date promises, and that seemed to ultimately work fairly well, hehe.

In any case I agree there could be better communication, clarity, and certainly follow-through. Hopefully that will become so in time.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: latego on April 24, 2009, 02:29:02 AM
Well 400$ is a hit but... with this sum you get 1300 plants, i.e. 31 cents/plant. If you go to Cornucopia3D (Vue shop) almost every plant you find is 10+$ for each species so I think that you can consider this a fair deal.

Obviously, with such price tag, the option of getting XFrogLite+XFrogTune (448$) becomes interesting (and I am sure that this was the reasoning behind this offer-you-cannot-refuse)

Bye!!!

...and congratulations for TG2 official release.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: chromecity on April 24, 2009, 04:50:04 AM
Well 400$ is a hit but... with this sum you get 1300 plants, i.e. 31 cents/plant. If you go to Cornucopia3D (Vue shop) almost every plant you find is 10+$ for each species so I think that you can consider this a fair deal.

Well you are comparing apples and oranges.  With the Xfrog plants, you get 3 styles of each of the different species.  That means that you will only ever have 3 different palm trees or 3 different maple trees and so forth.  You might think that you can use Xfrog or XfrogTUNE to modify those.  Ordinarily, with the regular $149 retail libraries, that is true.  But with these TGO-only libraries, that is not the case.  I own Xfrog stand-alone, XfrogTUNE, and Xfrog 4.2 for C4D, and I still would not be able to modify the TGO plants with any of those.

The Vue SolidGrowth plants on the other hand present you with a different variation of each plant every single time you create a new instance of that species.  They are certainly not limited to just 3 different styles.  And the SolidGrowth plants also react to Vue's wind dynamics which can make animations quite convincing.  I don't recall the TGO-only Xfrog plants having built-in support for anything like that.

Obviously, with such price tag, the option of getting XFrogLite+XFrogTune (448$) becomes interesting (and I am sure that this was the reasoning behind this offer-you-cannot-refuse)

Sorry, but this is not the case.  As stated above, Xfrog and XfrogTUNE can do nothing with the TGO-only plants.  You would just be wasting $448 if it were your intention to buy them for work with the 1300 TGO plants.

Aside from all the Xfrog products I already mentioned, I have also purchased a couple of the Xfrog libraries and upgraded them to the version 2.0 libraries at some point.  They are decent trees and plants, but even the 2.0 format is already 4 years old.  I'd expect to see them improve further at this point.  And if and when they do come out with a 3.0 format that is more detailed, I can already hear the uproar from however many folks end up purchasing the 1300 TGO plants and then find they'll have to pay another significant fee to update them all to 3.0. 

Up until now, I never had anything but positive respect for Stewart in the 10 years that I've dealt with Greenworks.  However, this entire tease-and-announce (stealing PS's thunder on their own turf) and then promise-and-reneg only to finally offer an all-or-nothing package has left me with a very sour taste for Greenworks right now.  The whole debacle was terribly mishandled time and again and I'd be very hard pressed to recommend Xfrog to anyone who's been dragged through this ordeal.  :(
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Walli on April 24, 2009, 07:28:04 AM
Hi,

first of all I want to mention - just so that you know who I am - that some of the Xfrog plants have been made by me, I am one of the modellers. And I can assure you, that no one of use is driving Porsche or something similar. I guess you underestimate the time that is spend to create this stuff and probably you overestimate the amount of money that really makes it into the wallets of Greenworks.
I am not involved into business stuff of greenworks, so i canīt tell you much about. But as freelancer I also have some objects on turbosquid for example.
Now lets say an object/species/whatever costs 10$. 5$ stay at Turbosquid. From 5$ about 30% stay with tax remain 3.5$.
From this I have to pay software, hardware, elctricity and other office stuff. Then I have to pay insurance (and in germany this is a lot), I have to pay something for my rent. Only after paying all that, I can start to spend the rest on private stuff - which means I have to pay my flat, food for my family and everything else which you need to "survive".
I know that for many people it sounds crazy if you have to pay "so much" - but actually its just enough. I just repeat, thats my personal freelancer side of view.

I also know that other people offer stuff for cheap or even free (which I do also). But most of them just do it for fun and it buys them a meal or two. Then there are folks who simply donīt spend money for software. So I think you really have to judge a little bit more fair.

I think this Xfrog deal is a good thing. Yes, its out of the reach of many hobby users - but did anyone from Planetside or Xfrog ever mention that this is the only thing that is ever going to happen?

And I know that you canīt edit the TGOīs. If you want to edit plants, then you have to get the full bundles. But honestly, there are not many people out there who ever edit the plants. I know that especially professional users keep this door open - so that in case they have the option to edit plants. But in 99% of all projects they donīt have the time to generate custom variations.

When talking about Cornucopia - keep in mind that a lot of stuff you get there is copyright protected also - so again you canīt export, its bound to your Vue licencse. You will find objects that are cheap there, but expensive elsewhere. Thats because people donīt get it out of Vue.

About animation - I guess this is on Terragens side. You can animate Xfrog plants and if there will be a way to bring animated objects to Terragen, then you can have animated Xfrog plants.

About Solid Growth and automatic variations - thats a good point indeed. I have been a long time Vue fan and i like the idea of (semi)automatic variations. But actually I almost never used the built in plants. If at all, then for background purpose, never if it has to be something detailed in the foreground. And the Vue wind looks ugly in my eyes ;-) Unfortuanately thats something most developers stay away from. Best results i have seen so far was inisde Houdini, but I guess Houdini is also out of range for most people ;-)

So, that was a very long answer - just wanted to give you an insight into a xfrog-friendly-freelancers-life  ;)

best,
Walli
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cbb on April 24, 2009, 07:56:51 AM
I am in the UK and out of curiosity I went through the process of buying the Xfrog plants, to see what the shipping charge would be, but stopped short of paying. Shipping is $24  which is fair enough but when i got to the checkout I was going to be charged 19% VAT. VAT in the UK is 15% at the moment so that certainly needs sorting out. I'm not paying 4% more VAT than I should. Also will the customs label state that VAT has been paid or am I going to be charged VAT again when I receive it. Normally with physical goods as I understand it the VAT is paid when the goods enter the country not at the point of sale.

Another point, it seems to get the plants you have to buy the animation version. I paid for the version without animation a while ago so with my $199 discount I, and anyone else not wanting animation will effectively be paying $500 for the plants not $400. I know I will then get animation as well but I don't really want or need animation.

I am considering buying the plants but I would like clarification of these points first.

Colin
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Walli on April 24, 2009, 08:09:21 AM
I will forward your VAT question to Stewart, but please do also write a mail to sales@xfrog.com.

About your second question - I am not sure i understand what you mean. The plants of the Terragen-Xfrog deal come only in TGO format. Its not possible to edit them with Xfrog anymore , its static meshes.
Apart from that, you always can load *.xfr files into the lite or full version of Xfrog 3.5. I never tried, but even if the xfr file is animated, you should be able to open with Xfrog lite, you just will get the first frame of the animation then.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 24, 2009, 08:32:09 AM
No Walli, his second question is about the package. He has to pay $500 in stead of $400 because he has to purchase the animation module on TG with the plants, because of the creative deduction system...
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Goms on April 24, 2009, 09:01:25 AM
I think this discussion left the point where it was "about the topic".
Ok, we all have expected some cool free stuff for TG2 from Greenworks, maybe 10 plants or something. Also it would have been, lets say, from a strategic point of view better to first give the free Stuff or offer it beside the package. But as it has been written now that there will be some more free stuff from Planetside and Greenworks (if i understood it right), we can forget that we have expected something else than this bundle and better say "thank you" for an offer, that is absolutely great. Its not fair to bash around on Greenworks when they offer this huge discount to the TG2 community.

Maybe there is a possibility for Greenworks to offer the single packages with this discount for TG2 Users to download. And i can imagine that they are thinking about something like this at the moment.
In other words: lets come down a little bit and give them some days to think about what have been said (and hope, that they can ignore the way it was said (in some posts)).

@Greenworks: thank you so far for this offer. But is an offer for single .tgo-only packages with discount (for download, so there are no costs for the DVD etc.) something, that would be possible? I think many Users would love to download packages for maybe 25$-35$ per package.
(Of course i don't know what deal about the pricing you have with Planetside, i just took the 400$/20+5$.)
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: cbb on April 24, 2009, 09:46:29 AM
No Walli, his second question is about the package. He has to pay $500 in stead of $400 because he has to purchase the animation module on TG with the plants, because of the creative deduction system...

Yes that's what I meant, perhaps I didn't put that very clearly. To get the plants it seems I have to pay for Terragen 2 with animation, but I don't want animation. Therefore I will be paying an extra $100 for something I don't want. Apart from that I think it's a good deal.

Colin
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: aymenk2003 on April 24, 2009, 12:24:03 PM
Is it possible that someone shares some trees using Arbaro software that I think is freeware ???
Or it can do the same thing (sharing his trees ) using XFrog standalone that he bought ???
Actually I m using Arbaro which is so difficult (I think) it took me 6 hours for a simple tree
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 24, 2009, 12:31:04 PM
What's the policy on those autodesk ones? Can we render them in 3ds Max and then postwork them into TG2? ;D copy paste a million trees, piece of cake.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 24, 2009, 12:52:24 PM
Some things I could do with $400 -



All of these are professional tools with commercial licenses.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: PG on April 24, 2009, 12:53:49 PM
I could build another TG2 rendering machine.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: buzzzzz1 on April 24, 2009, 01:22:07 PM
Up until now, I never had anything but positive respect for Stewart in the 10 years that I've dealt with Greenworks.  However, this entire tease-and-announce (stealing PS's thunder on their own turf) and then promise-and-reneg only to finally offer an all-or-nothing package has left me with a very sour taste for Greenworks right now.  The whole debacle was terribly mishandled time and again and I'd be very hard pressed to recommend Xfrog to anyone who's been dragged through this ordeal.  :(

Thank you for coming forward. Hey folks, for Person who has dealt with Xfrog for 10 years to say something like this, for me carries much weight and confirms my feelings.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 24, 2009, 02:46:44 PM
Hi,

...

I think this Xfrog deal is a good thing. Yes, its out of the reach of many hobby users - but did anyone from Planetside or Xfrog ever mention that this is the only thing that is ever going to happen?

...


No, but understand this.  Before this release, Xfrog had mentioned numerous times that they're working on getting us plants we could afford.  After this release?  Not so much so.

I'm sure if Stewert would have taken the numerous chances he had (IE, posts in this very thread) to mention this bundle is a quick release and they're working toward less 'bulky' TGO bundles, we'd be a bit calmer. 

It's rather sad that Terragen 2 finally sees it's big day (for un,preregged users anyways) and gets it site revamped.. and this bad news just puts a dark cloud in the sky regardless.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: rcallicotte on April 24, 2009, 02:54:00 PM
Ahhh.  Not so much...TG2 is awesome and there are loads of free objects to include.  Look at RArcher's stuff - he is making such beautiful stuff with so little.  So...let's not let this cloud our fun. 

I agree this could have been handled better, but who are we to judge Stewart?  Let's let this go and move on and and enjoy what we have.  Thank God nobody is holding a gun to our heads to pay money for something we really don't need.


... and this bad news just puts a dark cloud in the sky regardless.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: domdib on April 24, 2009, 02:58:51 PM
Amen to Calico's input. Perhaps we should lock this thread?
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: neuspadrin on April 24, 2009, 03:16:58 PM
Amen to Calico's input. Perhaps we should lock this thread?

sounds about right.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: BangelOz on April 24, 2009, 03:35:27 PM
yes, i can no longer hear 'xfrog' - an own online-shop with plants and more at planetside and no more discussion about this is needed.
Title: Re: Where can I find the new plants?
Post by: Zylot on April 24, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
Yeah, agreed.