Author Topic: Does it add up?  (Read 825 times)

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Does it add up?
« on: February 01, 2018, 08:44:07 PM »
I am about to use six layers of FSS (fake stone shader) in my project and never really did so many.

A million dollar question then is - do lower placed (in the node network) FSS layers additionally displace those above?

I don't want to create a field of hedgehogs, y'know...
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 08:54:51 PM »
Just made a test with my eyes half closed and... it does. >:( Any way to avoid FSS layers interacting with one another?
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline luvsmuzik

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2332
    • luvsmuzik 1995
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 09:00:24 PM »
I would suggest using the merge chain method as most file shares of others show. Some use one texture for all with color adjust, but you can disconnect that and use individual colors if you so desire.
This is mhaze's share...see the stones (rock) layer example
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23444.msg237239.html#msg237239

The Rock Color surface layer with a bold plus is for the terrain rock....go to the fake stone layer to see the chain merge I mean.

Another more complicated way is to use compute terrain as a mask or individual layers for each stone
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 09:02:57 PM by luvsmuzik »

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 09:17:13 PM »
Oh, I see. I think I get the idea behind it. Wonder if it'll work for six layers though!

I'll have a go at it tomorrow. Thanks luvs.
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline luvsmuzik

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2332
    • luvsmuzik 1995
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 09:21:52 PM »
I have used it quite successfully in most of my renders.....I think haze has at least 6 rocks there

Offline luvsmuzik

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2332
    • luvsmuzik 1995
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 09:28:52 PM »
While we are on this topic.....I have to research, because I think I read about the new TG4 reading shader names and something about if you have a name one place it reads it the same  blah blah blah....I think I am confused and will read up again....sorry

Offline bobbystahr

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8911
  • Turn, and face the Strange Ch Ch Changes...D Bowie
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 02:34:30 AM »
Oh, I see. I think I get the idea behind it. Wonder if it'll work for six layers though!

I'll have a go at it tomorrow. Thanks luvs.


There's a fine called stone_shader.tgc example in the presets that uses 3 stones and you could easily multiply that x2...
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 12:22:52 PM »
The rock study did indeed help to keep the displacements under control! However, while mixing the stones was easy, mixing them with whatever terrain and textures are above is not...

Now, my stones are taking over the colors (and displacements...) of the terrain and color layers from above the network view... Tried the same mixer to join the two, but with no luck really. Need to check it again in the source rock study file I guess...
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline luvsmuzik

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2332
    • luvsmuzik 1995
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2018, 01:26:17 PM »
This is where you either....connect the whole pyramid of merges as a child to a surface layer with no restrictions.....then you can use Distribution shader for altitude and slope as fake stone mask, keeping in mind that the stones merged in one merge shader should be distributed to same altitude and slope.

If each stone is a different color and displacement, you need to disconnect the upper texture and color adjust nodes, (this is where your color and displace should then be connected to each stone respectively as stone surface shader)

Geek at Play has a tutorial on YouTube about using compute terrain, written for TG3, I think.
There is another link, old, by chronor, where fleetwood demonstrates distribution, This is in Terragen Support:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14811.0.html

If Tangled Universe or any like artists have an explanation of stone distribution, I have not found it yet.

Edit afterthought....and then there is the painted shader, haha...many ways...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 01:55:10 PM by luvsmuzik »

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 01:54:25 PM »
Ahhh, how silly of me - the whole color issue was due to "slope constraints" parameter being still on and a stray "merge shader" dangling where it was not supposed to be. Colors are good by now.

79040-0

Some minor artifacts do appear when using this method. But given the distance the camera will be at in my new render, this is pretty irrelevant.

Now I just need to check how that terrain displacement will play along with the stones. Though it should not have any influence actually... ??? Maybe I just start to get paranoic.
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2018, 02:35:35 PM »
Wopsie! Looks like I'll have to move my whole terrain section under the stones! Otherwise the terrain form displaces stones that lay on the slopes... ::)

_______________

UPDATE

Okay... I'm kind of helpless now...

In order to stop the terrain interfering with the FSS layers (yes, it does mess the stones up) I moved the FSS surface layer to the top of the node network. Above the terrain.

This keeps fake stones intact, but... I can't use distribution shader for them anymore. ::) It seems that distribution shader will work only if it is preceded by the "compute terrain" node. Even if it works only as a mask. I tried to supplement compute terrain node on the top, before the FSS surface layer but it did not fool the program. Distribution shader is still completely useless...

And of course I can't move the stones to the bottom, because then, they will be affected by every terrain feature that's on the way. Ughhhh!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 04:41:21 PM by N-drju »
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline Dune

  • Terragen Alpha Tester (Win)
  • ***
  • Posts: 13542
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2018, 05:08:02 PM »
Usually one needs to smooth terrain on the surface shader that the stones are on, but I often find this eliminating subtle displacements I needed. An XYZ shader before the stones or plugged into their input also works sometimes. Fake stones are pretty hard if not working on a low smoothlike terrain, especially close-up. Distance is easier.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 05:48:47 PM »
Usually one needs to smooth terrain on the surface shader that the stones are on, but I often find this eliminating subtle displacements I needed.

Exactly. I have a very nice mountainous terrain that I do not wish to change. :-\  I guess I will just need to mask the rocky regions with painted shader and then plug it into the PF, because this is the only situation where the stones are not "kicked" but tilt along in agreement with the terrain.

I guess FSS behavior should be examined by guys at Planetside to see if some changes could be made. Perhaps "lean to terrain normal" as with populations? I'd love to have it!

Included is the picture and a clip file of some of my stones. If anyone would like to have a go, don't be shy an grab it.

The "victory conditions" are:

1. The stones retain the shape they have in the picture provided.
2. The stones are masked by PF which, in turn, is restrained to 135 meters.

Try it out and use the provided camera. Wonder if you are more lucky than me. :( As an added bonus, you get my nicely tailored FSS setup.


79059-0


NOTE: Use it on the default tgd.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 05:50:23 PM by N-drju »
"Error 404 - pun not found."

Offline luvsmuzik

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2332
    • luvsmuzik 1995
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2018, 08:06:19 PM »
Are you approaching this as a contest? Your examples are great, but the clip I have does not yield the same.

Offline N-drju

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • A ship in port is safe... well, fine by me.
Re: Does it add up?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2018, 09:52:51 PM »
Your question is the NWDA challenge? ;) In that case - no, I'm not taking part.

If this is a contest for you? No. Just request (cry, if you will) for help.

Well, that's the problem, you see. You get unchanged stone shapes only when you plug FSS to the first terrain layer. But then, it is impossible to distribute them via altitude or slope constraints. I have completely no idea why! It seems any altitude or slope distribution above compute simply does not work!

Also, the stones placed there, take on the terrain color, so in fact you need to transfer whole shader area above FSS! Which causes even more problems.
"Error 404 - pun not found."

 

anything