Author Topic: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind  (Read 625 times)

Offline Prometheus

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Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« on: July 31, 2017, 06:02:52 PM »
Terragen 4.1 free demo version on windows..
I have the sun going down behind the clouds, casting rays based on the clouds, I also have glow in atmosphere and in clouds, though there is not much more to control there, and with that active, I get the sun glowing in front of the clouds, not obscured by the clouds as they should be, is there a way to adress this?

and turning it off isnīt really a choice, that would  only make all the other realistic lighting loose itīs value..
note..havenīt checked full renders ..only RTP preview.

Thanks in advance for for any hints.

Offline Kadri

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 06:05:52 PM »

Make a crop render first. 3d preview can be different.
Then check "Receive shadows from surfaces" in the cloud and-or Atmosphere node.

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 06:17:41 PM »
well yeah, I think I did that a while ago, but I think it canīt be like this, I want and need the RTP to render the sun behind the clouds ..without having to final render.
If not..they need to work on that.

I have also noticed that the rtp preview and final render can yield completely different colors/contrast thatīs not good either.

I have noticed that the previewer this time around in 4.1 is quite a bit faster than itīs predecessor 4.0, so not itīs starting to be useful, but ..still needs to deliver on rendering a preview that is accurate to that of a final render.

Thanks kadri, I had hoped though that  it could be something else so we can get a proper preview as it will turn out in a final render.

Offline Kadri

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 06:21:22 PM »

Michael? From Lightwave forum?
At least it looks like it is you from your writing and 3D preview complaining :)

You are right of course. I just wrote something in your line in my own rock test thread.
But come on! Just a very small crop render will show it.

Offline Oshyan

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 11:19:04 PM »
Can you specify which glows you are using, the ones in the atmosphere and cloud nodes, or the post processing ones in the render node? Also, can you show an image that displays the issue you're seeing, or better yet a .tgd? The RTP should in general be pretty close to the final render, but it does not yet support the post processing effects in the render node, including glows and starburst effects. But it sounds like you're seeing something in RTP that you're *not* seeing in final renders.

Also, glad to hear Terragen's preview is getting up to spec for you. :)

- Oshyan

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 12:03:21 PM »

Michael? From Lightwave forum?
At least it looks like it is you from your writing and 3D preview complaining :)

You are right of course. I just wrote something in your line in my own rock test thread.
But come on! Just a very small crop render will show it.

Yep...Michael/aka prometheus from the newtek forums :) so hello again Kadri.
Well..good to know when you alert me that itīs me, based on my "complaining" :)

yep..I was a bit tired and had to shut down for sleep yesterday, thus I didnīt even bother crop rendering nor take a screenshot.

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 12:11:30 PM »
Can you specify which glows you are using, the ones in the atmosphere and cloud nodes, or the post processing ones in the render node? Also, can you show an image that displays the issue you're seeing, or better yet a .tgd? The RTP should in general be pretty close to the final render, but it does not yet support the post processing effects in the render node, including glows and starburst effects. But it sounds like you're seeing something in RTP that you're *not* seeing in final renders.

Also, glad to hear Terragen's preview is getting up to spec for you. :)

- Oshyan

itīs the show sun glow in the atmosphere panel, I was a bit tired yesterday and thought I should just mention it, but I will post later a screenshot.

And yes, the previewer is much better now, previously i still wasnīt satisfied with the speed, not even in 4.0...but now that is shaping up, currently though I still do not like the workflow of switching between terrain and generate it and back to rtp for atmosphere, if you compare to vue or lightwave, when you activate the previewer in any of those systems, you do not have to go through that route..so I am hoping that may be able to change further ahead.

And for the planet side team, If i were to choose which sky and cloud system that brings the best realistic clouds, it is hands down Terragen, so good for that, frankly the vue cloud fractals are quite old and not made for clouds initially......but for most of the other parts, I would prefer the vue way in terms of working with terrains, sculpt..and editing values in the atmosphere tab and using the viewports.
When working with placing/location and rotation of clouds, that is something I do not like in terragen, and the UI could be boosted as well, I have in my mind a mockup of that I may be able to post soon, including improved node connections.

To note, havenīt invested in Neither terragen or vue yet, they both have issues I still want to see changed...I do have a license of Lightwave and canīt wait to see what the new volumetrics can do, though it probably isnīt specially dedicated for larger skyscapes etc, more the kind of hero clouds.

Offline Kadri

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 02:06:07 PM »

Hello to you too Michael :)

With the pacing i see Terragen evolving, i hope Matt will make the previewer much more fully integrated (and faster?) around version 5 probably.
Wishful thinking on my part and only Matt knows for sure of course.

The most i want is speed improvements really. That's the most i hate lately.
You can only test render so many times before you give up on some specific things you try.

The UI needs an overhaul too really. Curious about your mockup.

Offline bobbystahr

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 02:17:03 PM »


 placing/location and rotation of clouds, that is something I do not like in terragen, a

I put a Transform shader between the Density Fractal and the Cloud shader, set to World, and regularily rotate clouds, give that a try.
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline Kadri

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 02:22:56 PM »

Speaking about speed improvements, the voronoi shaders are really faster.
I barely tried them before the last update.
Now choosing them isn't a hard choice like before at least.

Offline SILENCER

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 03:09:18 PM »
Those  voronoi shaders would be a snazzy option in the power fractal noise options.

Offline bobbystahr

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 04:52:55 PM »
Those  voronoi shaders would be a snazzy option in the power fractal noise options.

Huh? Isn't there already 2 voroni flavours, billows and ridges?
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 06:07:09 PM »

Hello to you too Michael :)

With the pacing i see Terragen evolving, i hope Matt will make the previewer much more fully integrated (and faster?) around version 5 probably.
Wishful thinking on my part and only Matt knows for sure of course.

The most i want is speed improvements really. That's the most i hate lately.
You can only test render so many times before you give up on some specific things you try.

The UI needs an overhaul too really. Curious about your mockup.

We all want faster previews and final renders, but this time I almost think itīs acceptable to work with at least, and compared to other previewers such as vueīs,  what bothers me now before any more speed improvements, that is the accuracy of rendering previewer the same as final results, I do not which to tweak and tweak and find a nice sky or sunset then only to render it out and finding it has changed a lot in colors..getting the right sky and colors is so subtle and delicate so it just Has to be completly accurate.

And the next thing I would adress ..is the navigation and value settings, I just imported a transformed procedural terrain from lightwave, and if I havenīt missed anything, is there really no other way of adjusting values than entering manually, no slider shortcut? it would also need to have a sort of scale all values in a set uniformly, as you do in blender by simply selecting them with the mouse and drag, so not to repeat the mistakes of how Lightwave does it, entering each value for x, y, z  three times every time you change something, but at least Lightwave has sliders.

So getting proper value sliders and control is essential to push terragen to be more proffesional, cause honestly it doesnīt look good with such value controls.
And further that, gizmo move and rotate handles in the viewports they need to be easier to find and acess.
And four quad viewports, good for checking heights of clouds and other objects while viewing a camera viewport.

I would also like to see nodes go rubberband, (though not jagged and horrible as they are in Lightwave)  take a look at blenders node, almost perfect in design and how you can zoom or snap to grids.

After that, probably the UI look, personally I think Terragen would look better and more proffesional with an option to set the theme to use no icons in the main menu bars, it will be easier to find what you look for and less distracting.

After that..introduce terrain sculpting..if itīs not there and Ivé missed it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 06:21:17 PM by Prometheus »

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 06:40:27 PM »


 placing/location and rotation of clouds, that is something I do not like in terragen, a

I put a Transform shader between the Density Fractal and the Cloud shader, set to World, and regularily rotate clouds, give that a try.

which transform shader? and shader not node? and density fractal? I am using easy clouds and thereīs only atmosphere as first node connected to the easy cloud, so the question is what node  goes to what input?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 12:51:43 AM by Oshyan »

Offline Kadri

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Re: Sun and glow renders in front of cloud, not behind
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2017, 07:53:36 PM »
...
which transform shader? and shader not node? and density fractal? I am using easy clouds and thereīs only atmosphere as first node connected to the easy cloud, so the question is what node  goes to what input?

Easy clouds are new and for fast building of clouds with relative few parameters.
The mask option came just with the new update for example.

The older cloud types have more control. Just an basic example:

74866-0

You can rotate,scale move the clouds with that configuration.
Or put other nodes before in the cloud input to get a different cloud shape.


Have a look at Oshyan's response here for example:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23418.0.html

There is a free preset pack and plants here if you want to have a look at other files:
https://planetside.co.uk/free-downloads/

The file sharing section does have many files too including free cloud scene files Michael:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/board,14.0.html

Nor sure if you had tried those before so just wrote to be sure.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 08:45:08 PM by Kadri »

 

anything