Author Topic: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3  (Read 359 times)

Offline KlausK

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TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« on: July 27, 2017, 12:16:38 PM »
Hi, there.
So, this is a first rendering using the improved CloudV3 in TG 4.1.10 RC.
It took 1h6m40s to render at 1920x1080 on my machine, which I think is ok, isn`t?
If anyone, probably one of the cloud-experts here, wants to have a look at the scene, you`re welcome.
Any comments about my quality settings for atmo and cloud are much appreciated.
I have to admit I am still a bit confused how to improve cloud rendering and which parameters
are really needed and which are not. Surely there is room for render time improvement here.

My first impression of this release is that the GUI is much more responsive, especially the preview render window.
With and without RTP. Looks like my XEON CPUs benefit from the changes made. Great so far!

Cheers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

Offline zaxxon

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 02:25:27 PM »
Great looking cloud with some nice light rays and scattering.  To my eye there are areas where you could 'polish' the final render, but they all entail longer render times. There is visible grain, which you would expect at your render settings of det. 4 and AA 6. Higher values normally resolve the graininess, but that's a trade-off for the artist to decide certainly. Your voxel settings under cloud optimization are set at 100 (99.9998 as shown) which may not be high enough to show all the detail, but again there is a trade-off. I thought there was some 'floating fuzziness' in the center gray areas that higher voxel counts would display better. Looking at your other settings they all seem to work together and certainly produced a fine cloud image. From my experience the settings sort of work in a kind of 'harmony' and as long as certain ratio's are maintained you can 'march' the numbers up and down a bit to get consistent results (obviously within limits). Curious as to your xeon specs, 1 hour and six minutes is pretty good for this image. My dual zeons are 5690's at 3.47 mghz (2x6, 24 cores). Thanks for the tgd, for a bit of comparison fun I'll render out the scene here.

Ooopps. Just noticed your cpu specs below the attachments.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:45:01 PM by zaxxon »

Offline Kadri

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 02:41:56 PM »

Nice scene.
Klaus you don't need "Receive shadows from surfaces" (cloud node) in this scene.
There are no mountains (for example) to lay shadows over the clouds.
This would help a little more for faster render times.

Offline Dune

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 03:14:57 PM »
Cool cloud, Klaus.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline KlausK

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 05:34:00 PM »
Thanks everyone  :)

@Kadri: this is surely one of the settings I confuse when trying to do stuff like this. Turned it off.
@Zaxxon: I appreciate your comments! Your landscapes are always something special to look at.
@Dune: thanks! Happy, you like it.

For a simple one layer cloud I am quite happy with the result as well.
About the grain and the artists decision...my thought was exactly that: for a 1 hour render I would go with the grain.
I thought that it was acceptable in relation to render time. Enough definition and detail to show the general structure of the sky.
For a final image I would go on tweaking.
That said, I turned "Receive shadows from surfaces" on the Cloud layer / Quality tab off (thx Kadri), then doubled "Millions of voxels" (200 mil now).
Render time is (hearhear) 1h06m30s. Flipping both version reveals some changes. More defined 'floating fuzziness' as Zaxxon called it.
And areas which lighten up a little bit more. Since i did not change any setting to further remove the grain/noise in the darker zones of the cloud,
there is almost no difference to pic no 1. Next step is doubling the "Millions of voxels" (just to see if it makes a difference) and raising the "Ray-marching Quality".
I wonder how this effects render time and quality of the cloud.
After that I`ll go on raising AA and perhaps GI Sample Quality and GI cache Detail. This is going to be a overnite render, I fear.
Cheers, Klaus


« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:41:07 PM by KlausK »
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

Online fleetwood

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 07:30:54 PM »
Nice looking clouds. If you should happen to want rays, I've found they can be stronger simply by turning off "use voxels for shadows" in the voxel specifications area.

Offline KlausK

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 08:27:50 PM »
@fleetwood: thank you. The parameter is already turned off. I think, I would  have to alter the suns position and/or the cloud itself to get better/more rays.

The attached picture has a "Million of voxels" setting of 400 mill (200 mill before) and I raised the "Ray-marching quality" to 0.75 (0.5 before).
Render time was now 1h26m30s. It sure looks better in some areas, even more subtle lighting in the cloud.

I`ll tackle a higher AA setting now and leave the rest of the settings as before for now.
Cheers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

Offline KlausK

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 11:23:59 PM »
This is rendered with AA set 8 (former 6). Render Time went up to 02h26m46s.
Again, flipping through the 3 pictures reveals how much influence and change the settings had on the final render.
Something, I do not quite as clearly realize by looking at each of the pics one by one. The grain is still there, but I
wonder if I can get rid of it completely in a time frame I`d be willing to take. I tend to accept the last render
as final. I am only talking about the cloud. The landscape is simply the default scene here. What do you guys think?

Or can anybody suggest what else to change in the file to make the render even cleaner? Thx.
Cheers, Klaus

ps: since I reduced the size of the cloud quite a bit the edge looks somehow cut off and way to light for my taste.
This would be my next step, to get rid off that without changing the cloud. Would a mask help here?
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

Offline masonspappy

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 01:46:18 AM »
Wow - nice looking!

Offline bobbystahr

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 06:11:53 PM »
Curious I loaded new iteration and did a default ver 3 cloud with from the front sun and a sunset. Nearly 4 times as long for a sunset but still faster than before.
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline KlausK

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 08:48:50 PM »
@masonspappy: Thanks very much.
@bobbystahr: With the sunlight coming from the front I could imagine that
the rendering engine has an easier job to figure out the reflection of light on the cloud
than dealing with transparency, translucency and bouncing light. But that is just my poor-mans-math thinking ;)

Ok, instead of working on the edge of the cloud layer in the first cloud I tried something else.
This is a Cloud with a Radius of 7000, a Cloud Depth of 5500, and the Center is at 1850.
The Density Fractal is left at default settings. Edge sharpness 0.5, Cloud Density 0.075,
and Coverage adjust at 0.75. 150 Millions of Voxels, no voxels for shadows.
Ray-marching Quality is set to 1 (I was to impatient to work my way up to a optimized value).
Receive shadows from surfaces = on.
Render GI settings / GI in Clouds: Cloud GI max ray depth at 8, Voxel scattering Quality at 100.
Might both be unnecessary high but I did not want to do more test renders.
Render time about 2h30m with AA at 8.

I like the wispiness and the translucency. tbc...
Cheers, Klaus
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 08:50:32 PM by KlausK »
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

Offline Oshyan

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2017, 11:03:03 PM »
Max Ray Depth at 8 is very high. The default of 2 is suggested for good reason. I would not recommend going higher than 4 unless you have specific reason to try it.

- Oshyan

Offline KlausK

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Re: TG 4.1.10 Cloud Layer v3
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2017, 11:09:14 AM »
@Oshyan: I thought so - "Might both be unnecessary high but I did not want to do more test renders."
Cheers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / Win7 Ultimate

 

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