Author Topic: Nebulae  (Read 5572 times)

Offline Dune

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2017, 02:11:11 PM »
Negative multiply in PS? Complement color of one layer and multiply? Results are really awesome.
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Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2017, 03:54:46 PM »
How do you make these faint small tiny details (the black dust structures) in your picture "Hulakara-Minkares nebula" ? I can't figure that out..., how do you make them? Do you render them in Terragen (so is it just a question of settings) or do you stamp them later on into the rendering via Photoshop? Hmmmhhh....

You guessed it, I make them a separate pass in Terragen, then I impose either the nebula itself or its alpha channel. It is also not bad to create a weak light nebula between the main nebula and the dark nebula. It creates a good air perspective for the main nebula and complicates the structure and appearance. A weak light nebula you can also render separately. I could do all this in one *.tgd scene, but I'm afraid that my computer will just explode. And since I know the photoshop there's just no point in this.

Unfortunately, I do not have time to study everything you wrote today. But I see that very interesting information. As soon as I can, I'll study. Thank you very much!

Offline Stormlord

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2017, 04:32:00 PM »
I really love it !

STORMLORD

Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 11:21:11 AM »
If you like to render your own stars in3DsMax, I could send you my Max-File. It is made in 3dsMax 2009. If you have the program, you could use my setup to render your own stars in a big resolution and excellent quality. This would provide you also the Alpha Channel, so you will be ready for masking. Just mail me, I can send you my file if you like... :-)

It would be wonderful, I would have studied more carefully. I'm not sure that I will need the alpha channel, since I put the stars through the ADD, but still I can see.

Just lay the stars layer over your rendered space scene (nebula) and apply the negative multiply blending method for your star layer.

I understood. In the picture I saw that you have it called Negativ Multiplizieren. The fact is that in my English-language version of Photoshop this mode is called Screen. But I still usually use Add blending mode.

So I'm able to fade over between the milky way and the constellations and their main stars only. I underline them with my favorite music just for viewing and relaxation.

Unexpected application :)

(Attachment Link)

I like the overall composition and nice colors. And in the upper part there are more small details. It is perfectly.

I have been wondering how one would assign such masks in Terragen to a population of a single star object. There seems to be no way at the moment to assign a single value for each star dot in the mask. (Meaning you might get a cluster instead of a single star)
Rendering your clouds then layering post render would certainly be faster and leaves you with many more options for sure.

I generally did not find a way to make a large number of stars in TG. More precisely, I found one way, and he gave me a pretty good starfield. Here is the result:

75523-0

But unfortunately, nothing more can be done in this scene. I can only put these stars on my nebula in Photoshop.

(Attachment Link)

Oh, this is the new life of my nebula! Thank you)

And I saw Orion and other nebulae, its good! Have not you tried adding dark nebulae yet?

Offline Stormlord

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 09:03:49 PM »
Yes Dennis, I added some dust and dark zones into my latest space scene.
Here it comes... I called it Supernova Remnant and this time I used nice end summer colors (orange-red-brownish).

Some Alpha channels from other nebula renderings are subtracted and one is multiplied in this picture (I masked one alpha channel from a nebula with mask extensis pro to try this method). As before, I added some rendered stars in different colors and sizes and blended it with stars from a real astrophoto...

Theres also one screenshot from Photoshop attached.

As promised I can send you my 3dsmax files, but you must send me your e-mail adress via personal mail.

STORMLORD


« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:48:46 PM by Stormlord »

Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2017, 10:42:23 AM »
This is a good nebula. As for me it most difficult and interesting of those that you sent before. Good colors too.

As for the 3DS Max stars. You've already written a letter to me, and I answered it to you. Maybe it got into spam? But I'll write to you in any case.

Offline Stormlord

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 10:57:14 PM »
This is a good nebula. As for me it most difficult and interesting of those that you sent before. Good colors too.


Well... I just need time to find out all the tricky details and a few more nebulas to combine them in adequate color combinations... höhö...
-> Dust lanes and dark areas are no longer a problem as you can see.

By the way, you got mail Dennis... I just didn't had a look to my mail I was very busy the last days. But Thank You!

STORMLORD

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 11:01:52 PM by Stormlord »

Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2017, 12:19:32 PM »
Theres also one screenshot from Photoshop attached.

Dirk, try to take into account the fact that the nebula itself is not always transparent to the stars that are behind it. The nebula will become more tangible. That is, you can use the same nebula as a mask, but corrected by the curves.

But some stars are still piercing. This problem was solved by dividing the star field into two or more layers. For example one layer in front of the nebula, the other behind it.

Offline Stormlord

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2017, 02:33:07 PM »
Theres also one screenshot from Photoshop attached.

Dirk, try to take into account the fact that the nebula itself is not always transparent to the stars that are behind it. The nebula will become more tangible. That is, you can use the same nebula as a mask, but corrected by the curves.

But some stars are still piercing. This problem was solved by dividing the star field into two or more layers. For example one layer in front of the nebula, the other behind it.

Thx Dennis, this i really a good idea for improvement! I tried that out in this image, it looks more realistic and gets more a 3D depth, very good idea!
By the way... I have only an old Pentium 4 Quadcore with 2.66 MHz, rendering is still a pain for me. One big rendering takes around 20 Hours for me.

STORMLORD
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 07:44:38 PM by Stormlord »

Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2017, 11:21:22 AM »
This is a beautiful, complex nebula structure. It's great to see.

By the way... I have only an old Pentium 4 Quadcore with 2.66 MHz, rendering is still a pain for me. One big rendering takes around 20 Hours for me.

I'm constantly experimenting with my network of nodes. And some multilayered nebulae can take more than 100 hours on my Intel Core i5-4440 3.1 GHz (RAM 16GB). And this is without the upper dark nebulae. By experience, I can say that the rendering time depends primarily on the Cloud depth (100 min - 500 max), number of light sources (1 min - 7 max), number of Cloud layers (3 min - 8 max), and probably Cloud density (0,02 min - 5 max). Well, the rendering time depends, of course, on the quality settings. I usually use micropoly detail 1 and AA 5-7 with Defer atmo and Ray-marching quality = 1 (on Quality tab of Cloud layer node).

Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 11:23:57 AM »
Dirk, by the way, and over the nebula, small stars are still needed. Some of them are very bright behind the nebula, and some of them are closer than the nebula itself, but more dim. In general, the number of stars over nebula can vary, but they are, although there are fewer than in open space. I'm not talking about big stars, they're fine.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 11:29:38 AM by Denis Sirenko »

Offline Dune

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2017, 06:58:56 AM »
I wonder if such high detail level is necessary with mainly clouds, you could try detail of 0.1 and see if that's faster and as good.
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Offline Denis Sirenko

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2017, 10:43:12 AM »
Dune, I think I've tried everything. I sometimes do not even have such settings, especially if the light source shines through a thin nebula. Here you can see the noise around the star. As far as I remember, this noise depends on both AA and Micropoly detail settings.

75815-0

Although, of course, I might be missing something.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 10:47:41 AM by Denis Sirenko »

Offline Dune

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2017, 02:38:29 PM »
With these settings it's quite logical you get grain; AA5 is not very high, especially without defer atmo. If you try this with defer atmo on, mp detail 0.1 (my guess that would work) and AA minimum of 6, maybe 8, you probably loose the grain.
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Offline Stormlord

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Re: Nebulae
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 03:00:03 PM »
Very cool settings for the nebula, looks a little bit like helix or crab nebula.
Good colors, fine details, excellent setup except the noise.. How many clouds did you put in this scene?

STORMLORD
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 04:09:43 PM by Stormlord »