Author Topic: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash  (Read 785 times)

Online Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7654
Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« on: December 22, 2016, 01:38:49 PM »

*Default Terragen scene.
*Open a rock population.
*Make Minimum and Maximum scale (scale tab) zero

Terragen crashes when you press "Populate Now".
I needed that for an animation test.
If only one or the other is zero in the scale options there is no crash.
It happens only when two of them together are zero.

Terragen 4 64 bit 4.0.04, Windows 10.

Offline Oshyan

  • Planetside Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 11544
  • Holy snagging ducks!
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 07:17:23 PM »
Confirmed. I have filed an issue report for this in our tracker.

- Oshyan


Offline Hannes

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3472
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 09:19:07 PM »
It took a while to think about that. I don't get it. Why should one set minimum AND maximum scale to zero? Is this really a bug? Why should that work?

Online Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7654
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 09:25:56 PM »
It took a while to think about that. I don't get it. Why should one set minimum AND maximum scale to zero? Is this really a bug? Why should that work?

I wanted to test rock objects going from big to zero in the last time lapse animation i shared Hannes.
I thought about that those numbers might look strange.
That was the reason i wrote "I needed that for an animation test." :)
I rendered that part with very small values instead, but didn't used it in the test video. Needs more work.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 10:01:22 AM by Kadri »

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 07:59:02 AM »
There's probably something being divided by zero, a mathematical imposibility (afaik). Made me think though about population growth. A pop of trees (kind of) growing in time, by repopulating each frame with a slightly taller object base. I guess so, though it won't be real growth of course.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Online Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7654
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 10:12:59 AM »
... Made me think though about population growth. A pop of trees (kind of) growing in time, by repopulating each frame with a slightly taller object base. I guess so, though it won't be real growth of course.

Beside changing the size of the population objects, maybe merging two populations in time? Haven't tried it and not sure if it would work.

Edit: Just had a look. Won't work i think. But there are other ways like changing the opacity in time of the two or more populated objects.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 10:16:19 AM by Kadri »

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 10:23:44 AM »
May I break in? Just did some 25min testing. One tree (and grass) growing and changing the leaves texture from bigger-leaved to smaller-leaved over time, through merge shader with a world scale transition from black to white as controller. I can't really see if that works, perhaps the differences in leaves are too small.
I also tried changing the opacity over time, but that had a strange blackening effect on the leaves. I still don't know if world scale opacity works by now. It didn't a while ago. A way around this is to use a black opacity default shader and a normal, merged and controlled as said.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Online Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7654
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2016, 10:32:26 AM »

Nice.
The problem with those kind of scenes is the objects needs to move by itself too in a certain sometimes even jarring way.
Can you try by adding a displacement (that even changes in time) to the objects Ulco?


Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 10:59:26 AM »
I know the idea of that movement. I will, but there's another series rendering now with a bigger difference in leaf size. Problem is (I see now) that I used a pf to steer the transition, so in some areas the big (young) leaves stay longer... first I'm off to eat something.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 12:08:34 PM »
Another test. With forced displacement the renders look horrible, so I left at default for the next test, see if any movement can be added. I haven't done much in that area, though.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Online Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7654
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2016, 12:41:34 PM »

Nice.
Just as i was thinking what can be done i had suddenly a Deja vu feeling Ulco:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,20339.msg201555.html#msg201555

That thread in general could be helpful. Strange just a little more then a year ago.

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2016, 12:52:53 PM »
Yes, I just refound that too. Off to see what has rendered now....

Trying the redirect method Matt mentioned, with a distribution shader to bend the tree tops. But I doubt if that works, as it seems you have to take off the nodes off the objects mesh displacer input and reattach before it works. We'll see.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 02:01:33 PM by Dune »
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2016, 06:54:29 AM »
I am thinking something else, how to make grass move like in wind, but not only on flat terrain where you can use altitude.... have to try something.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12361
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: Population Minimum scale and Maximum scale zero crash
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2016, 06:55:35 AM »
And this.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl