Author Topic: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics  (Read 10054 times)

Offline Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7484
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #105 on: July 31, 2015, 12:17:58 AM »
...
I for one hope that behaviour (TG ignoring ngons) won't change.
...


Every software i know can use them in this or that way why shouldn't Terragen?



...
As far as I have observed PoseRay's auto triangulation isn't better.If you need things
to be in a certain way you are always better off doing it 'manually'.
As always,from my point of view and judging by my experiences,of course.


Not that i think different, but if you use the flat surface as a flat surface (my above first response is related to this too) other then esthetics there is no difference.
If you want to displace that flat surface,then yeah it isn't a flat surface anymore and you have to model accordingly of course.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 02:13:45 AM by Kadri »

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #106 on: July 31, 2015, 04:37:39 PM »
Quote
Every software i know can use them in this or that way why shouldn't Terragen?
There are programs that can't.And as things are you have to model differently for almost
every purpose.That's cumbersome enough.If that's changing every once in a while it would
not make things easier.


My quoted PoseRay remark (from the post above) is refering to:
Quote
My experience in LW is that tripling/triangulating automatically doesn't always choose the most logical connections for the new edges. So I do the most important ones by hand. I don't know what Poseray does in that respect....



Offline Kadri

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7484
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2015, 11:13:21 PM »

Ignoring ngons fully looks one step worse to me then trying to triangulate them (even if a little problematic).
That train object could be imported without a problem with basic triangulating even with all the ngons for example.
Anyway it is up to Matt and dealing with this kind of converting issues isn't any news so i don't care so much.

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #108 on: February 18, 2017, 03:46:55 PM »
And now for something else.

Some days ago Ulco wrote:
Quote
It's too bad you can't have 2 UV-maps on an object. I often use a tiled texture for parts, hardly ever one total UVmap. In the latter case you can paint dirt in crevices over the texture as a separate map, have it stream along sides with wind, etc.

There is a solution to achieve that effect. It is not two UV maps, still one, but used in two ways.

71887-0

In the above example image you can see that the tiling can be changed independently, so that the
other texture is not affected.
How? See next post.

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11813
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #109 on: February 18, 2017, 04:00:06 PM »
I think I know how you do that; by changing the size of a UV (repeated) image map to say 0.1 instead of 1, and adding it to the 'normal' UVmap. But for dirt in crevices you's really need one map of the whole object so you can paint in the dirt in crevices. That's still hard I think. If you have a solution for that, I would be thrilled.
For stone walls I often use a repeated default texture; the UV map well exceeding the space available (for 1 tile).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 04:01:38 PM by Dune »
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2017, 04:27:57 PM »
Nope, not like that. It has a map for the whole thing, except the top part.
Did it that way, because your tree objects always have these caps and
I didn't know for what kind of model you'd like to have it.
My next post will explain.

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11813
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #111 on: February 18, 2017, 04:32:53 PM »
I can't wait! Sounds cool.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2017, 04:57:20 PM »
Ok, here it comes.
For the example I used a square based pillar/beam to show the principle on something
easy. So this pillar is 4 squares high and since it has 4 sides it is 4squares wide, too.
Deleted the bottom and separated the top square to be an object of it's own.
Then I took the pillar into UV-mode and cut it on one edge and unwrapped it.
That resulted in a square that fills the whole UV space ( 0-1 ).
The top, although not relevant for this example, got unwrapped, too.
Set up like that the pillar was exported to .obj format.
Opened the model in TG and started to load the images and assign them.
These are the images in use.

The node setup

The alpha mask is used to cut out the white from the dirt layer image, which btw
is representative for a handpainted dirt layer.
The tiling texture is applied via an image map shader to make use of the repeat x
and y features. And that is the crux in conjunction with scale.
Just divide the size of 1 by the amount of the desired tiling. Like 0.5 for 2 tiles,
0.25 for 4 and so on. See pictures, please.



Pretty easy and straightforward.
Of course you can connect the nodes in different ways, the above is just one example.
It's for the principle.

Hope it'll give you some idea(s).
 

Offline bobbystahr

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6905
  • Band
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #113 on: February 19, 2017, 03:24:52 AM »
Brilliant, is there anyway this could be added to the WIKI under textures...?
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11813
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #114 on: February 19, 2017, 05:47:31 AM »
This is what I meant in reply 109, but I'm afraid it wouldn't work for a building where one part (say all walls) exceeds the UV area. That whole section would have to be within the UV space, or you get tiling of the dirt painted in that UV space as well. Dirt won't be on the right spot, except maybe in the UV area.
I also think that if you have 'gradual' dirt, you need a glass shader or a gradual opacity, which is not the case atm.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #115 on: February 19, 2017, 02:32:39 PM »
Sorry Ulco, I misunderstood reply 109 obviously.

Quote
I'm afraid it wouldn't work for a building where one part (say all walls) exceeds the UV area. That whole section would have to be within the UV space, or you get tiling of the dirt painted in that UV space as well. Dirt won't be on the right spot, except maybe in the UV area.

That's actually the point of this method. Having unwrapped parts exceeding the 0-1 space is what is
causing the tiling, as we know. So this method takes care of the tiling in TG exclusively while the
unwrapped map does not exceed the 0-1 space and is, thus, paintable.
Gradual dirt might be a problem, haven't tried all options. Although masking the surface layer -
what I did here - works with grey values iirc, doesn't it?. (my map here hasn't any, just b/w)
The only other way I know of is doing it in ZB - applying a tiling tex, converting to polypainting,
re-mapping and then drawing your dirt map - as mentioned elsewhere before.

Bobby - feel free to do so.

Offline bobbystahr

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6905
  • Band
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #116 on: February 19, 2017, 03:27:40 PM »

Bobby - feel free to do so.

Hmmm, it requires converting to an html page and I have no skills there...was hoping Oshyan or someone could do it...
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New

bobbystahr

Offline Dune

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11813
  • Corkscrew Bird
    • www.ulco-art.nl
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2017, 06:36:27 AM »
Quote
So this method takes care of the tiling in TG exclusively while the unwrapped map does not exceed the 0-1 space
I thought about after shutting down yesterday and came to the same conclusion, that would be the way indeed; do it the other way round. The only 'difficulty' being the exact ratio of tiling in TG, that would need some figuring out. Clever way. Must try it some day. Thanks Jochen.
In case you still haven't seen enough of my work: www.ulco-art.nl

Offline j meyer

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1999
    • orkwarts
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2017, 04:18:10 PM »
 :)

Offline archonforest

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2989
  • !AMIGA RULEZ!
Re: 3D Models and Terragen - Basics
« Reply #119 on: March 21, 2017, 06:16:57 PM »
Hi Jochen :D

So I want to dirt up a bit my train and the train cars. Just a bit. Right now I am using that technique that you showed in this thread earlier with the heli. It works but it does not looks real or something. Perhaps my set up is wrong? Will post a picture in a sec...


The left uses a PF into the color. The right one uses the technique you showed earlier...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:35:58 PM by archonforest »
...many rooms to explore but the doors look the same...